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YllWEF 8F THE
Y h l H E l FLlCPT AWIREWESS SEMIMAR
YAMRED SPACECRAFT CENTER
S f PTtYBER 15-28, 1161
�FOREWORD
THE PURPOSE OF THIS SEMINAR WAS TO PROVIDE THE GOVERNMENTI
INDUSTRY TEAM WITH NEW INSIGHTS INTO THE FUTURE OF MANNED
SPACE FLIGHT AND ITS ATTENDANT REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALITY
WORKMANSHIP IN THE PROSECUTION OF APOLLO AND FOLLOW-ON
PROGRAM ACTIVITIES. GUIDELINES, OBJECTIVES, GOALS AND MOTIVATIONAL INNOVATIONS WERE DISCUSSED, AND PRESENTATIONS
WERE GIVEN BY KEY MANAGEMENT PERSONNEL OF NASA AND THE
AEROSPACE INDUSTRY.
�AGENDA
SEMINAR ON MANNED FLIGHT AWARENESS
Maned $acecraft Center
Houston, Texas
Thursday, September 25
-
-
SESSION I NASA Management: The Manned Flight
Awamness Challenge as NASA Sees i t
SESSION II Industrial Executives: Industry's View of
the Future
Session Monitor: Mr. Philip H. Bolger
Session knitor: Mr. Philip H. Bolger
Opening Remarks
Philip H. Balger, Acting Director
Manned Space Flight Safety
McDonnell Douglas
Astranautics Company
Walter F. Burke, President
Welcome Address
Dr. Robert R. Gilruth, Director
Manned Space Flight Center
North American
Rockwell
William B. Bergen, President
The Boeing Company
Harold J. McClellan, General
Manager, Southeast Division,
Aerospace Division
Panel Discussion
Moderator W. C: Schneider
NASA
-
Industry
W. C. Wi&
R. A. Petfane
R. R. GilruUl
W. F. Burke
W. 0. Bergen
Dr. George Mueller
Keynote Address "The Future of Manned Associate Administrator for
Space Flight"
Manned Space Flight
Apollo12and!&yond
Dr.Rocwktrone
Apollo Program Director
Apollo Applications
Program Planning
William C. Schneider, Director
Apollo Applications Program
The Management
Challenge
b e James, Director
Pro@m Magement
Marshall Space Flight Center
Astronaut Participation Major Stuart Roosa, USAF
in the Manned Flight
Astronaut
Awareness Program
-
H. J. McClellan
Panel Members
Friday, September 26
Moderator
Dr. Preston T. Farish
John Mill~Mtt- IBM
The heing Company
Tom Scott
Dwayne Gray - North American Rockwell
T ~ ~ ~ T o c-TRW
co
Harold Durfee &urnan Aerospace Corporation
Gordon Macke McDonntll Douglas As~ronauticsCompany
Space Station Task
Group, Manned
Spaceflight Om ter
John W. Small,
Assistant Field Director
Manned Flight Awareness Themes and Progam
Continuity
Reliability and Quality
Assurance Office,
NASA Headquarters
Dr. John Condon, Director
1. Central Themes
and Awards
Al Chop, Headquarters West
Coast Representative, Manned
Flight Awmncss Off ice
Industrial Relations
and Compensation
Service, Texas Instruments, Incorporated
Dr. Charles Hughes, Director
2. Manned Flight
Awareness Warking
Tosls: Pastas,
Newslettar, Films,
Decals, etc.
Eugene E. Hixbn, Chief, Manned
Flight Awareness Office, Manned
Spacecraft Center
"Innovations in
Motivation"
Moderator
Sununary and Closing
Philip H. Bolger
-
SESSION Ill - MFA Concept at Work
Session Monitor: Dr. Preston T. Farish
- Eugene E. Horton
-
Remarks
�TABLE OF CONTENTS
Page
OPENING REMARKS Philip H. Bolger
-
1
WELCOME ADDRESS - Dr. Robert R. Gilruth
2
MANNED FLIGHT AWARENESS CHALLENGE AS NASA SEES I T
THE FUTURE OF MANNED SPACE FLIGHT - Dr. George Mueller
APOLLO 12 AND BEYOND - Dr. Rocco Petrone
APOLLO APPLICATIONS PROGRAM PLANNING -William C. Schneider
THE MANAGEMENT CHALLENGE - Lee James
ASTRONAUT PARTICIPATION IN THE MANNED FLIGHT AWARENESS
PROGRAM - Major Stuart Raosa, USAF
INDUSTRY'S VIEW OF THE FUTURE
Walter F. Burke
William B. Bergen
Harold J. McCleilan
PANEL DISGUSSiON
MFACONCEPTATWORK
Johfi W. Small
Dr. Jab Condon
Dr. Wlarjes Hughes
INNOVATIONS IN MOTIVATION
MANNED FLIGHT AWARENESS THEMES AND PROGRAM CONTINUITY
CENTRAL THEMES AND AWARDS - Al Chop
MANNED FLIGHT AWARENESS WORKING TOOLS - Eugene E. Horton
CLOSING REMARKS - Phi lip H. Bolger
iii
�OPENING REMARKS
PHILIP H. BOLGER
Acting Director
Manned Space Flight Safety
The successful lunas landing and completion of the
flight of Apollo 11achieved a national objective in this
decade and is a significant milestone in man's continuing progress in space exploration. Historically,
achievements of such magnitude, requiring concentrated efforts over an appreciabh time period, are
followed by a letdown aad general relaxation ~f the
personnel involved. Ea addition, this letdown may be
amplified by a serious morale problem when funding
cutbacks a r e experienced. The result is a decline in
the required attentkoa ts detailed w o r l n n a ~ h i pwhieh
can cause a rise in a d d e n t rates and potential loss
of life.
Ta ctam*
tBew p&@atidmmde
~uqlacency
prdem in the
ht pmgram, WB Gcwsmnmsa%
daFi tne; rn
Mmn& l?li&&Awarenp;m &~xllinaris
bhg eollmlwbd. The abjer&itre af this +emhm Irs the
In We way we ~$11get the rn6sli~agefrom NASA Maaagemetat ta the X&WC$ua2a m&pc-maiMa for dolng the
work t b t k 76W ta t ~ h a Pi&
g
quallty of wmkmau~bipIn the aem~spaeefame.
The grc%=&iwsof tSlis 8ez~ias-r
WUbe trasnsibed
are &tenid%, hopefully
wiWn w e m~ath.
d d o t & &to CBw who
Mow, I have a sta%mtfro-m Dr. P a b e , who was
d l e to be here isday,
he IEL
quite interested in
o m lihmed Fltght Awareness P r o g r m ;ui$ what it is
trying to do. ~r paim says:
.
"1 wish to ezpreae my regret W I eun unable
Q participate in the Msrnned Flight AwareSeminar b e c a r e of previous commitment~.The subjects that you will discuss
tue of the greatest importance to the future
of Manned Space Flight. It is imperative
that the NASA/Contractor Team maintain
it&mamenturn a d cantinue to achieve the
highest degree of quality workmanship. I
rediee that this is a difficult task to achieve
in thie period of cutback in space aetivities
following the succesrs of the Apollo 11mission. On the other hand, however, we a r e
entering a new e r a of relatively stable space
flight activity and will be undertaking new
pragrams that Dr. Mueller and his associates will discuss witb you. We must impress on the aerospace worker force the fact
that our future in space is a bright one and
that we will continue to move forward in
achieving an ever greater operational capability and broadeningour scientific knowledge
in q a c e . To achieve these goals we are as
always dependent upon the individual worker,
his motivation and interest, and ultimately
the quality of Ms workmanship. I know that
you support my views on these subjects and
will make every effort to bring our future
space f l w t programs to successful achievement. The Manned Flight Awareness E o gram is one of our most valuable tools in
support of these objectives slnd I hope you
will make every effort to utilize its capabilities to the utmost.
Now, we've asked you to come today to discuss some
~elativelyserious problems that a r e confronting us in
Ohis period of instability a s we a r e cutting back a f b r
the Apollo 11 succesrs. Our speakers will address
these subjects in light of their particular programs.
�WELCOME ADDRESS
DR.
ROBERT R. ClLRUTH
Director
Manned Space Flight Center
Good morning, I am happy to welcome you to this seminar. I would especially like to thank Walter Burke,
Bill Bergen, Pat McClellan, and you other leaders in
industry for taking time to be with us today, and to
bring us views for the future of manned space flight
from your perspective in industry.
It is fitting, I believe, that thismeeting is being held
following the most remarkable expedition of all history-manf s f i r s t journey to the moon. Neil Armstrong
described Apollo 11 as lla giant leap for mankind, " and
there is no question but that i t was a giant leap. It
proved among other things that the moon is no longer
quite so remote and inaccessible a s i t had been. It
didnot assure us, however, that the next step in space
would be equally successful. Whether o r not i t is will
depend to a very large extentupon the inspiration and
leadership, and the imagination that will be shown by
those of u s who a r e in this room today.
I think this can be a very valuable meeting for all of
us. We a r e going to hear a bit aboutwhat is planned,
what i s possible, both from the viewpoint of NASA and
from industry. I believe that this frank exchange of
views and comments can give each of us a freshperspective on our jobs, and a better understanding of
what lies ahead in our national space program. I think
we a r e all concerned about the period of let-down that
tends to occur following a great milestone, such a s
has just been completed. We all know that we cannot
afford a let-down. There a r e many important missions to be flown. There a r e many more flightcrews
waiting their turn for flights. We know that we a r e
being looked a t very critically by millions inthis nation
and abroad. We must continue to demonstrate to them
that success can follow success, and that the words
lfMade in USAu stand for excellence and worth in
leadership throughout the world.
Success results, I believe, from the interaction of
many people doing many things. But success can
never come about without pride. It cannot come about
without personal dedication and a fundamental understanding of the job that is to be done. Unfortunately,
motivation is an intangible. It i s not something that
the Federal Government can write into its contracts.
It has to be self-induced. It comes from within. It
results from knowing that the work we a r e doing is
important and that the job we have been given is more
than just an 8-hour day. It is impossible to get everyone, in all our organizations, to think like this, but if
we could just raise the number by 10, 25, o r even
50 percent, then I believe we would be working in an
entirely new realm, with f a r greater potential for
success and less probability of costly mistakes.
I cannot over-stress the importance that NASA management attaches to the Manned Flight Awareness
Program. We know that the program has and will continue to have a very important and positive effect on
our flight missions, an effect that can be felt in such
vital areas a s crew safety, cost, schedules, and new
technology. I hope that each of you will find ways in
this conference to put the tools of our Manned Flight
Awareness effort to use to revitalize and rededicate
the efforts of this great team.
I wish this conference every success, and again welcome. Thank you all very much.
�MANNED FLIGHT AWARENESS
CHALLENGE
AS N A S A SEES IT
��1-r
qlooration program; one that is, however, I think, a wite festsllhle wms d m e a t also serve# as a
proving ground for planetary exploration, because it brm mt that moSt Q%ofbt'W.qg8 that we w a need to have
d e n we explore tha planets can be daveloped and tested a$ &a moan, w%$&31~)- oowiderable irer.vi~sin time
4money.
P m n M FearlqlNu
Iiuum.E
COST REWFION
USE OF SPACE RIGHT
SCIEP1Q AQPLICATIW & lEClW3LOCY
.TO ENSURI INCSWSING RFfUMS IN SCIENCE AND APPLICATIONS
USE OF
EARTH
ORBIT
EXPLORATION OF THE SOLAR SYXTEM
LUNAR MPLORATf ON
010 STRUCTURE A PROGRAM Of INCRWSINO CAPABILI.TY
-
M
A
W MPCOaATlBN
FIGURE 1A
The results sf this h
program, as shown in FipFve
(iaad I im kind of skipping to &e end and then I
will come b w k and fill in-htwm) a r e first of all that it fulfills the objactiveer d the wieme 4 applications
disciplines, it pravidee an agpeseiive planetary program, and a capability for a lrmar eqloration program
leading to the QVQZIW
e-xploiWon of the moon. In ptw&t&w, it p r w l d e ~a r m o d 1 e pregram leading to a
surface base. It p s a v i d ~a capability for a program to urn e%fiorbit for M t m e olppltoathm and mission
operations. It deveiops anew spa4xtflight aagability of ccndderable power and it provides a precursor data
technology system for manned planetary exploration in the 86's. It also provides a basis for cost reduction.
The capabilities that are developed in the course of carrying out this program include (Figure 2B), in the case
of the aut.omat;ed spaeecd2 (which a r e still used f a r those naihlsions where they a r e more effective), the develspaamraft; the use of special-purpose spacecraft, particularly for those
opment of longduration interplanethings that r q i r e eantisuinf! observations; and the operational earth application spacecraft where you are, for
example, taking the f~Uow-msto the mros and the Nimbus satellites. Much of the equipment developed is
designed for a combWbn d m m m d aur$ wtamated operation. For example, the astronautical observatories
are a dual mode type of operation where raen will work with the telescopes over a period of time and then allow
them to fly freely a3sd operate aUOom%tically. Man in this kind of ttn application will be used primarily for
changing instrume~ts. The lunar rover i5 an example of a dual mode system in which we normally will have a
manned operation of the rover, but it will have another mode that will permit it to carry out long traverses in
an automated fashim. And then we will have the man-tended satellites of many kinds: that have been proposed,
including even manufactming facilities where they can be automated.
1
INESRATEO SPACE PRaORAM SPlCE GLPABILIW DEWLOWOIE
INTEGRATED PROGRAM RESULTS
1910- 1980
!aw!El
lLWODURATIW
rn
FULFILLS RR OBJICTIM ff THE SCIENCE & APPLICATION Q I $ C I P l I R S
m m w m R Y SIC
*SPfCIM PURPOSE SIC
a OPERATIWAL WR7H APPLICATIONS Sk
PROVIBES AN AWESSILT PUWFTARY PROGRAM
PIZOVlBES CAPA5ltlTY FOR A LUNAR EXPLORATION PROGRAlW WIDlNG
TO EXPLOITATION
PROVIDES CAPABILITY FOW A PROGRAM TO USE EARTH OXBIT
S C I M Q , APPLICATIOMS &MD MISSION OPERATIONS
b ASTRBUUdICAL
. L M
OMAN
INSlRUMB175
RWER
mom sAmLrrs
&&.!a
SPhCE STATION MODULE 8 ATIACHEB UBM(AT0RIIS
DEVELOPS NEW SPA& FLIGHT CAPABILITY
LMIB CREW CAPSULE
BROVIMS PBeClJRS061 DATA & TECkMOLOCY
EXPLORATlON IN T M
rar
FOR MANNED PlANETARY
GWERIU USE
$PAC€ SHUTTLE
PROVIDES A BASIS F O R COST REDUCTION
a WCLUR $HUTRE
c j P A C f TUG PROPULSION MOUE
FIGURE 2A
FIGURE 28
.
�its attached labonabasiew. We also have
In the mmplebly masTFec3 wea, we have tlra space atatim module
that .t.caa be wed for wureignct to the moon or for e s c u r s i w from w e arbit to
such things be a mew
another In the earth b a i t .
For general w, we prerp& the d ~ l w ~af1a spwe
~ t thtf.le f ~ earth
r
axface ta eartb orbit and return; a
nwlaar sWt&&r$oiagfmm e m orbit t.elumw o&t eula ratnrn; md a mas tug wtri~h,for e-xample, is used
fog &&+b-orbit~hmge8 near a
8WWt. 4%e space &g, incidmtauy, dm is designed to provide us with
the aap&ilitg of lawling that menw c ~ d one the mbon. Sa it is a multipurpose ewpment.
I &ink the basic strategy that we b y e devekcpd fw e a ~ mt
m thid p;mg;raim is one ol first, reusability,
and, if you will aetiae hem, wc gat reu&lity in two fashisns. Qw, in the o m e o0 the apace shuttle, dl of
you knew, is a o&cle. W takes of£from the earth surftee, flies into orbit, rendezy~~,s
witb wha#ever platform
it needs to, t ~ a d 8 c~ q8 o sad pa$s to that space atatcan module, thm rebras to @art&,hiding horieontally
on a mguhEPt3dlng &%p, Psrl is bmught over tO B hunch pad, r
~819d takes
~ offagain.
,
And here we have
reuo&tb.nSeJr. In&@ sure af the nuohas shuttle we are talking about a vebide that caa operate from orbit to orbit
many Urn-.
We expiwQW we will be able ta cavrp out somewhere betweein 10 to 50 orbit-to-orbit flights,
with- a staglet canuofem shutue, b9ff)re we have used up the ncaclear materid. In the cam of the s p m station we
~t reusability in B d:fffem& fashion, and that is tftrough the lifetime. We are talking aLborrt spaw station
modules a t last ten yearm mid that are in emtlauous use for that period of time, through mpply from the
w e e shuttle.
I%
sgssnd
@
major
L c o m a W t y . Although it is most diffioult in fact to aobieve, we are looldng at
a program where we hay8 o d y a fmv basic modules to be dmlaperd, and then we modify them to fit particular
applhtim. fn grwthl&r,are expat the w e station module to be the same, whether it happens to be in
earth orbit, lunar orbit, or in eynehramus orbit. Now that places mme constraints on the first design, but
once mxwmhated, it t b n has a wldca range of ueefulnem. Th8 same thing i s true af this space tug propulsion
mvdule, We expect & be able: to use that ~~ltme
propulsion stage for landing on the lunar surface, as well
space station module to one of the man-tended satellites and back again.
as for taking the crew cayldefmm
Now one of tbe keys to this wbb program again is the refuelhtg in space of these various proputsion units, We
d o ~ ' tintend to bring them bmk d m to the aurfaoe. In mo$t cases, we plan to reduel ahem in space. And that
again means that we have a fair oargo, but a flaxihle cargo, that we can use in carrying out the program.
The kind of a program that we are now talking about has a schedule that takes off from our present Apollo
equipment and its uses, and begins within 1972 (in the case of L e Eartb Orbit Program), with the Garturn V
warkshop ruLd ar quiewent CSM, as s h m in Figure 3A. Thatworktdtop is deeigned to provide us with an understading Bf what it takes for men ta live for extsnded periods of time in space. Its first flight is for a month,
its e o m d flight is for two monfhs, and it has a Wrd flight for two months, where we will have a three man
crew buildbg up aur e z p r i w e e h t the phyaiolo@cdeffwts of I q - t e r m expoewe to the space environment.
In addition to that, it has a major scientific instrument, the Ape110 Telescope Mount. It is really the first
manned apace d a r observatory, and it will be in w e thmmgbat that time period. We have in the integrated
plan the ability to fly a secQsPd of these workshops in the 1973-1974 time frame, leading up ko the introduotion
of a space etation madule in 1975. k t that earnetime, we would hope to be able to bring on the line the .space
tug and the spaee shuttle.
Now f ought to say a word about there dates, they are indicative of what we can do. The question, of course,
is how nrueh do yau have in the way af resources? Well, we have earefdly structured this program in a way
that divide# it up into p b w . So it i s a phahied program. The first phase of earth orbit operations is the
&oUa d@~aticmer Program, which you are all familiar with. The second stage will be the apaee station
mod&. You hawe an a p p o ~ i t to
y delay that $me, if you wish, in order to conwrve near-term resourceti.
And m, these date# repmeat tfis s l i e s t pos~ibledates that ane acarld bring W e inb be-.
I think if you
s t m c w e the progmm on lass re-s
in Me near-term, then thee dsltw will stretch out.
In 1978 we p h to t;crtmcbe the f i r s t of tb man-tended spomr9fts. In the case of the automatedmiesions bet w k now and 1976 and 1977, there is a very acttve program in this plan of flights, building
our knowledge
of tbe near-earth enuironzwst, rind leading to the use d *e space station and space tug in 1977 as it becomes
awailabh. And Bere we w i l l first use ths space shuttie f o r carsyiae; the satellites b t use to fly on b p of
regular rocket vehieler. We use them to atwry fh8) satellite into orbit, ahedr them out at the space station, and
then p h e them in whtever orbit we redly want them eventually b be in with the spme tug. This provides us
wiEb the opportunity, if wmething gaes wrong with the satellite, to go back over, pick it up, and either fix it
there or Is,it h e $ to the spa- station and fix it. In the event of et major failure, we can bring it back down
b earth and fix it.
Thenby 1979, we wouid have et
e @tationin santelaw altitmde earth orbit. We w d d expect that tbere might
well be a w e station inpolar orbit, a& we would expect W t there wouM be a space station in geosynchronous
orbit. The space statian modules are d p ! ~ @ d ta be coupled one to another, 80 that ane can build up the amount
�of living room you have in space. We think t h d we could use 'these to build up a: space base capable of accommodating several tens Qrevenhundreds of people a earth orbit. The n u 0 - k ~shuttle would be the mdmtay for
translation from earth orbit to synchro~ousorbit, or other widely varying orbits.
In the lunar explor$eion grqp~rm
(Figure 3B), we have onee again a takeoff from the ApoUo Program. We would
expect, in the peris$ beween n m and a b u t 1975, to contfnue a program of @xploration lunar flights, using the
basic Apollo squipm~tft,akded for &itidad staytime on the lunar euTfaw, md to pmvide for some observations of the moon from wbit, by using the empty bay in the wmi6e module d the orbiting vehicle. We would
expect to introduce ~ometimein the 1972 time frame, a manned roving vehicle that will permit the astronauts
to venture some di&t%nc-eaway from the landed lmas m98ule. We wodd q e e t by a h t 1976, or some year
after the fir@*spme sWim ~ o d u l was
e put into orbit, Q put one into lunar arbit, and t~ begin then to use it a s
a mobile base tn lunar orbit. f t b 5 one great itage age. That is, it is 60 miles from every plwe on the lunar
surface, it's in o ]pol= l m r orbit, and os a eonsleqywe, every two weekre
can reach my point m the surface of the m w . F m early exploration &hisappears to be a most desirable mode of operations. It is coupled
with the tug and the cpew capsule to provide ac~pabtlityfortake-off from the mace rtation module, landing at m y
point on the noon, staying Wre for either two o r four t w k s , rand then rcstwminp to the space station module. The
long term appli~61fft-m4 this ~rbitixxgmodule is, of course, as an intemredW@b a w If you think of what we
will be d a h g on the ~ E K ) Rsomet;lme in the early 1980's o r the late 1980's depending on how we p r o c d , we
would envision a situatitm in Bvhiah we h d shuttle8 going from the earthts surfme to earth orbit, carrying propellants, cargo, w d crew, to this transfer point in earth orbit, A nuclear shuttle would then pick up the cargo,
load up on propellants, wid take the cargo axid crew out to the space station in lunar orbit. Here again they
transfer to a third &uWe that gues from lunar orbit to the lunar surface base, and retarns to the lunar orbit.
.
+
W?!dOEBlT MFAPARR PWlBllXM Sf-E
L
W LXWTlW
lmmm BRBEOm'mBICE
MANNED
MMMeD
INSTRUMMTS
AtW
IMRODUCE
M
~
SPAR 9TATiaW
L
SVC
WGLfAR SHWllf
R
BASE
lUNlR ROML
APOLLO
JISCIPLINAUV
SPACECRAFI
AO IWXRMBIAE
TO SMML LkwcH
VIHIrnS
SPICE STNIOU
mmw
PWXSMUmt
19 OPF?WTiW
ME1
MRBdkW
SPMXBM
AS b P m l & R
SYSlEMS
FIGURE 3A
FIGURE 3B
W e now have a tcaaspa~8Sisasy&emthat p;ravidec for a o m p l s ~ l yreumble vehicles, all the way from the earth
surfme to the moon surfwe m d r-rn,
One d the advantages of this is that you can project cost per pound
for such transportatton asbeing something like $200 a pound for a pouad carried from the earth's surface out to
the moon and back again. That compares with m e b & & s of thousands of dollars a pound at the present time.
I have tried to summarize the major events a s they take place in the earth orbit part of this integrated spme
program, in the time frame from 1970 to 1980. I think Figure 4 demonstrates what. we have been saying.
You find
we do not have very many new pieces of equipment introduced, but instead a build-up in the k i d s
of things we a r e doing that is quite impressive. ltn fact, I believe this program meets all af the objectives that
t-he scientists ad the people that have been working on space ~pplicationshave been able to define for this time
period and d m provides the flexibility to do many things in addition.
tha
Again (as shown in Figure 5) in lunar orbit you have the same build-up of capability and in the planetary area
another buildvp capability. Now, we have taken the program out through 1980. We also have looked atwhat the
implications are of this programthrough 1990. It turns out that by using the same basic equipment of a nuclear
shuttle and a @pacestation module it is possible to build in earth orbit o planetary expedition. One of the ideas
we have looked at says we take a space station module, plus some planetary peculiar equipment, and attach to it
three nuclear shuttles in paralIe1. The first Wo of these fire, and drive the third shuttle and the space station
�FIGURE 48
module with .tBe pliw~truypeauliar equipment off to, for example, Mars, The two outer shuttles, once they have
achieved the Wawfer velocity, leave the vehicle andreturn ta earthorbit for reuse, the remainder continues on
out f~ Mars, and tbe third nuclear shuttle p l w s the spme station module in orbit about Mars. There are excur&an modules to the Mars s h e am3 return. They stay there for about taro months, then they return past
Veauls, using the nuclear shuttle for the second t i m ~ ,and u ~ ae Venue flyby to reduce the return velocity to
earth. Then they fire #e nuclear shu#le for the third time, and return the whole assembly, including the space
station module and the ehuttle into earth orbit, where it can be refurbished and reused. That is the kind of
p r o m flexibility that is available o w e you develop these reusable vehicles.
Here in Figure 6 ie a detailed flight program. I w@nttdwell on that this morning, but you will notice that there
is a considerable progrru~of usmannedor rtutomatedl~rebiclesin the early phases. They eventually become reused, utilizing ths: spme staticin as a base to operate from, and so the numbers dwrease. That decrease in
nzuabers, in tarn, pmvIdeBI u6 wfth a better understanding of how we reach the 88vings. We are doing something
lfke three o r f o u ~times as much work in space, by the-1977-1978 time period, but the costs of operations have
& o W y decreased.
I guess the one thiag: I ctfdn't do was to discuss two very important parts of this program whichwill, i n f s t ,
determine how successful thie program is in reducing met (Figure 7). One of these ie the third item where we
the
have tried to prwide fma w 1 d qualification and checkout criteria. Now, that is particularly true
experhefit area, beowse once we have a @ace shuttle, itwwld seemthatone ought tobe ableto use essentially
tbe s a n e kind af equipment for exploratory research that you use in tbe laboratories here on earth. If that is
true, you can put fbose thing%in the space shuttle, carry them up to the space station, move theminto position
FIGURE SB
�and see if they work. If they dmqtwork, you can fix
them, became you have the tfma and p p l e &ere to
do it. That should redwe t8e very eons~iderablecost
that we have ~stso(sit~te3
with making sure that all of
this equipmat works pefpwtly a m it is launched.
And much of the cost of prmbnt day equigment is in
the qualification and Wa&flity
area. We had h c p d
to be able to eliminate that.
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The s e ~ o n dWng is that we h v e tried to provide for
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1 PQOslBE F B AtlWIWWS FLbW MMI%SIM
Kennedy who participate inlaunbhing a Saturn V. We
mstm POS H ~ I W
maKrn? L WIUTAINWC~
PEWSIR F a RIWT C W MISSIE* C W M U
would like to end up with a groundcrawfor our spme
m
r
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shuttle that i a not h r e r #aa tbat for FL 747 aircraft.
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H we can achieve that, then &@ c o ~oft operfitioo will
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plummet. That means tIso~h,h t we have ta do
mcutrls
something differeat about the desfgn af these vehicles.
+
They have to be capable of operating with very small
crews and be checked out and be ready for launch with
FIGURE 7
very small crews. That s a p , in turn, that we have
to design the srtbs~rgtamto operate in that made,
which is quite different
tb way %@ym e designed at the present t h e . Therefore, one of the great challenges is going to b to G
the way we a r e doing bu%ineesto be much more nearly the kind of checkout and
design philwophy aseociatsd with airoraft, rather than that which we have developed for launch vehicles and
spacecraft.
b
P(IWiDL
(I
.
Another facet of this is the development of a better way of handling information that is generated in the space
module itself. One becomes aware of the problem, when you think of the warehouses full of magnetic tapes
that now dot the ldsaape around each of our Centers-magnetic tape that is storing, at the present time,
housekeeping dab, d not a very high bit rate. And then look a t the saientific equipment and the desires of the
scientists for new eqaipment in the next 5 to 10 years. You can imagine that there probably won't be space
enough on the surface of the earth to house all the magnetic tapes that would be gener~tedin a few years of
operation of some of this equipment. WeI1, we do need to pre-procegs data, reduce the volume of data, and
increase the quantity of informaLtlon we get out of these things. That is gaing to be another challenge in the
development of both the *ace station and the space shuttle (Figure 8A).
We atre in this kind of m approach, estrtbiishing an integrated program that is capable of meeting the needs of
the scientific comr$.unity and our engineering community a s well. Xn this instance, the equipment we have developed c o n s i ~ t of
s just a few basic kinds that a r e used to do all of the things that we have been able to think
of doing in the 1970 to 198Qtime period. Here (Figure 8B)in the case of the cislunar operations we continue
�to use S a ~ m VWstfrne
~ ~ period,
t
sincethat size of vehicle is necessapy tulaunch many of the modules
into orbit. Bat. $he. major trwportation is carried out by the space shuttle itself. The space station module
has many ugw of courtw, W a s the balse for laboratories in space, d dm a s a way-station for Qavel to '
other orbits. AEJpat can see, we have space station modules in several places, each one af which is supported
by the nuclear shuttle.
The overdl planning ,s&edde that we have talked about is ehown on the left hand figure. You will note that one
of the khings we tried to do in making; this plan was to have a continuing flight program both in the lunar area
and in tfie earth o ~ b i t da~ea. Dobg so, tmms out to be not tao expensive, ;tnd at the same time it provides us
with the contintling buil&p of knowledge that is so essential for an orderly program.
Wow I would like fa tell yon of the plan which went into the Space Task Group repert, Basically, the Space Task
Group rep@& emt with Blaree program alternatives Figctre 9). 'Rie integrated plan, that I described, is
really the oae thatwouldrequire resources r s h m W a r the maximum pawe in the dutted curve on top (Figure 10).
As y m can sass, it bums up to a fund- level that reaches about 10 billion dollars in 1976. That was the most
ambietious p r a g ~ mpresented, and from that program the President1&Space Task Group selected certainalternatives. It tww out that the principal cbmge in each one of these alternatives is in the pace of the schedule in
whioh the pl.af~3~am
ia wid out. But there are differences in the conteats of the several prqgrams. For
exmnp1e, by the time you get to option 2, ar program B, as is the case in the right hand figure, you find that
m workshops to one workshop, and so on. There are actual reductions in content, as
you have reducsd f r ~ mt
well as in the schedule of the program a s carried out here. But basically, each one of the three options has the
same ear& opbitd b&d-up of equipment. The third option essentiauy defers the decision on when one undertakes a plmetary mission out beyond the scope of this particular study. Essentially, the difference between
option 1 rand option 2 is in the time at which you carry out your first mamed planetary expedition and the time
at dub you bring yo= firet station module on orbit. The-difference between option 2 arid option 3 is that the
sta& of a p b w e y prog;ram does not take place in that funding curve. But, of course, as is true of most prop - ~ , you have to recognize a t y m have flexibility, and these programs are designed to have flexibility so
initiate a new program start at any point a s you go along.
that y m
I think that the position the Space Task Group took is one that is quite constructive for the future of the space
program. I find that the alternativesdo pennitus to buildup those basic elements that are essential to aflexible
long-term program. In particular, each of the programs provides for the development of the space shuttle, a
space station, EUXil a space tug. A11 of them also have in it the development, but on different schedules, of the
nuclaar shuttle. So thst ia the sssenc8 of the situation a s we stand today.
I am encouraged, p e r e d l y , with the actionsthat have beentaken over the past several weeks and I believe that
we do, in fact, have a sound basis for a continuing space program. I think you all ought to be encouraged. I
think you all ought to recognize, though, that our ability to carry fopward with such a program as this depends
upon the continuing succtess of the present flight program. There is nothing that will cause some of these
dresuns to wither on the vine more rapidly than failures in flight. With that in mind, I would like to conclude
with just a w d abaut the i m p o r t w e of t e r n work in carrying on in the future and to show a film that we had
prepared in time for the Apollo 11 flight. It is a film that we prepared to commemorate the end of the Apollo
Executives Group. We invited to the launch all of the top executives of your companies and the service groups
who had participated in the program for so many years, allowing us to reach that point when we could take
C
SPACE R I M PROGRAM PPERSPfCTlVE
LtmAR
OWIT BAS€
LWR
M A C E BASE
I
I
FIGURE 88
�off for the moon for s. lunar lmdhg. We trkd to show in inis film some of the characteristics of the teamwork that made t f t Big& powibla, I Link %at t~am~orlr
that was so essehtial in ApoIlo is going to cuntime
to be essentid in the h@xe, ir we w e to suwe4 in this e@a~e
aeffuttyr. And so I would like to leave you wi&
the thougM that ft i s the taan *at is import&, a d it b our &stre md Lope that we can preeeme that same
kind of teamwork in thefuture k t has been so fnstmental ia the succese, of the past. Thank you all very much.
FIGURE 9A
COMPARISOW OF NASA FUbfDIN6I REQUIREMENTS
(BILLIONS OF DOLLARS1
FIGURE 10A
FIGURE 10B
�APOLLO 12
AND
BEYOND
DR. ROCCO PETRONE
Apollo Program Director
- 8 .
- +->*+- 2% *
moami&, genheken .-it.iS
,,, ,,,
;I-
&&h
iiOe to
~ci
here today. In the few moments I have on the schebule I am going to stress Apollo 12 and beyond. I am
also going to stress the fact that each bird eomes by
itself. Before you w n W k 13, you have to talk 12.
Before you can talk 14, you have to talk 13.
Same years ago, when I was playing football for Earl
Blaik, he had a favorite expreersian that r e d l y sank
home in later years. He said, "If you want to win,
you've got to pay the price." Now, Apollo has its
price in order to win and mcceed. It is a question
of dedicationto the job-that little bit extra, that little
extra push. It is far beyond what we would call an
8-hour day for those of as who are going to lead the
program, and those of you who have to lead others.
It is a question of following tb-rsugh oa details. That
is the price we have to pay in this program, where
the smallest detail ignored i s going to hurt us. It is
a thorough probing of problems. It is a question of
not accepting a first answer that comes in. You know,
you are so harried and pressed, therfirst m w csmes
in with a' ready answer and, b y , it's the answer to
a maiden's prayer. You have to be careful not to
take thd answer. Probe it! Make sure it is the
answer to THE problem, not an answer to get rid of
the problem, which could really be some other problem. It is a question of constant review to make sure
there are no cracks; and again, that means hours of
effort, that means a thorough review on the part of
people who can see if there are cracks. Ancl then there
is the question of teamwork, the integrated teamwork
between the plant and the field. Group dl these together and that's the price we have to pay.
Now with Apollo 11, we proved we were willing to pay
the price to meet our goal. Many people, some naturally but wrongfully. feel we have paid the price for
success and now we can rest on our oars. I want to
tell you &at the demands on management for the fu~ ehave had in the
ture are r e d l y greater than t h ~ we
past. When I looked ctt the future missions this last
month, in my new position in Washington, I literally
had my eyes opened on the future. We have been busy
operating. We have beem busy pmhing , fighting the
details-31 of which haa to be done. But the missions
in the future of Apollo are mom demanding. We are
talking smaller ltuulctr windows. We are talking same
launch opportunities t b t we onlyhave one day to meet.
W do not have a nice eight-day spread with maybe
three recyalee. One day! And on some sites only
one day a year I So you can see the demands we are
going to have on quality performanee of operational
follw-through. We are going to be carrying heavier
payloads. We want to do a larger number of EVA'S.
The point to be made : "The demand is on management
to make sure no one ertaunMes. " To hit that site which
is going to be important to us, demands are going to
be greater than ever.
Let us look at the Apolla series from 12 to 15, we call
these the H series. H-1 coming up i s the Apollo 12
landing site, I am sure most of you know just where
it i s . It has certain objectives, and one of the new
things we a r e going to do is to run two EVA'S. We are
going to spend some 32 hours on the s~rrface,and,
hopefully, we a r e going to bring back some new information, It is a very intriguing mission. One of the
secondary objectives, not the primary, is that we land
near the Surveyor. We a f a going to be able to see the
results of what two and a half years of exposure in the
l u w environment can do to equipment. Now, this i s
very important for the future, as we talk of building
shelters on the moon, a s we talk of better understanding conditions on the moon. Here now we see that with
our second flight we a r e broadening our grasp. We
are reaching for more data, more knowledge. The
Surveyor landed these about two and a half years before
�A p d o 12 is s ~ k d d e di;o I d . T l z i ~!%vreyar dld n
number of things. One thing it a d was to dig a trewh
Now we have the m q a e rrppa~iunityon &is flight to
take pictures of that Surveyor, auad analyze what ttRB
and a half years of expoasare on the lumr surfaae a s .
It's quite uniqae! We will p1mtS~b1~
not have that opportunity again.
met a;t ttte WOaCErCT W 8 C d e r t r . a ~ sprulmd
e
by NASA
a d the National Academy of k2eace. The purpose
of tW meebiag was fo b ~ & gbgetber p e d e h thirr
fmaPywbo oodd lwkm~w
taol we have. Apollo
had d e v a S e a tool &qua in hiatmy. This ~ f ~ g
h a momel3ded wwe adopta flight p ~ @ pofmbetween
10 & 15 ladings toflll the mael*
tu b~inghome
the pieces to W k t w eJ o to
us tha picture
here fn the yews &sad d us. We J s o , as we look
at &lew rnissibni~,are try- to ~ o r the.
s thing we
call ~ r b i t ds c i m e . This is qUit!~&Wld. We are
f
X
0
b
aboard
eomand module.
We we
znditt~es~ s do.
a Wte a bit of picture
what
.
The Apollo 12 h u g b 18 m i e s of miasisionr,will go SQ
sites we can use and exphit wlth essentidlythe present Apollo hatchware, slfghtly extended. Starting with
Apollo 16, we go inSs @&ad&
lmar explor~tion
Here, we are m a H n g r n W a a o m on the lwar module to be able to stay on Ure lunar @wf=e 54 hours.
Also we are plaaaing .onthree EVA'S of four haurr on
the surface.
.
What has been irtk'fguhgtr, me is to watch the scientists who have studred every site ; t h y seem to h o w
eaoh site now like p u
1 d d h o w the back of
our hand. By &dybg the maps made from #e lunar
orbiter phobs and S
L &a& brwigbt back from the
prior Apollo mimi.rseims, the sci&ists have been able
to plan traverses where it is w r y important whether
you go North or South, h term of tile data you are
going to get. Nolw to get there in the fitsst place we
will require very preci&ewvlgatian. We will need a
very accurate sya$em to gst hl ~JCBewh site. Once we
get to these sibs, the lcwmIt*e we o m k i n g back is
unlimited. There i s n .pcrwise re98m fm s i n g to
each site. We are going to 'be laoking for 61 new crater.
In s a n e of the m;ate~rswe have the ~dmwtagetha*
when the meteortt@s hit, WJT
ejected matarid from
10 miles below the stlsfm. Sa we are pftqg to k
able to pick up q ~ c i m e mtfint redly r e p s e n t the
i n t e ~ o of
r the mocm. We are p i n g €obe able & determine tbe process wMab far& them rw3Kse. The
techniques we b e to mdyse Usesse things w e very
intriguing. YOU em 1it-e~
dl3 bll when the rock was
formed. You caa tell h ~ w1- the r w k hsca kRgn MI
the gurfaee. These Wktp came ;tdgetb l i b a gi-t
jigsaw puzzle. And &at is part of the message.
1the FY 1970 budget p m w a , the auhrimtian bill
appropri5~gioabiU g~ fsr has d y passed the House, the
Sea@%yet is to e w i d e r it. We are talking follow-on
,
buys, WE& ie very important, of course, for our
future. We are talking some five Saturn V's. Again
we are looking for missions beyond Apollo 20. We
a b o are making plans fop follow-en spacecraft. One
of t b 8bps we are taking, agrtia in l&ie with the comments Dr. kIsteller made, f s cost redu&ion, which is
earrentid for the future of waee exploration. Refurh i s h e n t of command mcddes is one of the methads
we thW offerer us 8-e epportunity So, ertarting with
CommandUodde 106nowat Domey ,there will be-let
me call it-prototype reffirbfshnxent, hoping Ulat with
Spwecraft 118 we nil1 be able to take command modules and refmbish them. This will save a considerable
cost in m h foilow-on misaion. Again, these are
~ thoughts we have in order to get
some & the s t q and
mare for the dollar in the exploitation of space.
The ApoUo game is just starting, The inform~tion
we are goingto bring back, the int4gration of that information, is geisg: ta eve us rs tPemeadonra inrsigbt
to understanding the moon and t b wlar ayst.arn, AB
Dr. Mueller s d d earlier, it will give us the first leg
up an planetmy expbratian. These te!cturiqn~sfor
work* on #e moon me gahg to give ul the h w l edge, the plan, far l&er explora@onof Mars.
One of the very impo-t
taala wa we looking at is
a Rover. Iarn sme m m y d ~ri3ltEakowabout it. But
the ability b go out maw 16 kilometers Zrt a precise
direct&on;,stqqiag at certain "sciwesee ~dtztti~fis~~
(as
we o d l them) al~ngt
b way, pickiag up apecimen~,
~mkiag ~ S W M ~recorbinp;
B , in pictures, and
bringing back this information from acth trip, or
traverse I s important. And each tmmrse hae a particular jab to fill o certain piece of a puzzle.
We are
talking ~f nine landings-nine n o r e that
have been s ~ m e dTBg
. @ c k m e $rmpr Eww
t looked
at the lmwr sr;trfac;e md have put together the puzzle
that t h e y d d like to we filled. Tlrese mielaee greups
)L$s passed Imk#t&e&~$d €he t%mai%~.
.
The point I want to W e wlth these remarks is that the
future of Apollo le just beginning. The exploration and
exploitationphases arejust aow here. -re
are many
ways to prepare, like the football team that practices
through the long, hat summer, wid sweat h i t s eyes,
and with hard knodrs. But now comes the payoff. We
have played the first game. We have acMeved a goal.
But we have no #me to relax. The goal of Apollo was
nat just to b d oa the moan a d return. Those were
the key words in President ICenn&yts address to the
C o n p e ~ e .But other word8 were that we are ping to
Ism b sail on these sew, We are goingto learn how
b operate. And &at's the payoff, andthat's the phase
we have yet ahead of us. Can we operate ? Can we be
successful ? Can we deliver hardware in the quality
manner on time? Can the people prepare for launch?
Will it do its job ? The question of can we do the job,
of course, meam we have got to keep our eyes on the
future.
But let us review our remnt experiences to see where
we need more practice. Where do we need more intepated teamwork? Where do we need more scrimmaging, to make sure we don't come up short when
we face what I like to call the moment of truth ? When
this gear is committed for launch and we reach T -0
r
��to a new'enviromnetxt t Ham we lost mntrol of our
process apac? We b w e ta make e8rtab that we
first answer. it's also true in our
never accept
testa. B is so easy in betfag that &metimes you
will see a glitch on the record. "Well, yeah, we
understand it, or "B eouldn't be important. '' If that
glitch was never thew bdore , you must trclderstana it.
You must pursue it. Now tfrere are times you crmnot
get t o w bottom of it. But Wey havegot to be few and
f a r between. Aad Cben it has to Be the right
ement level that meeptr it. h n l t let these things
be bought off at the middle management. E they are
not explained properly, where you can go €xi& and
audit later, they have to come to the higher level for
acceptance. I believe those two items, the qtlaI test
program and mdfwetion analysis, have redly contributed in a tremeRd&ue degree W the swcess we
have seen of the ApoUo hardware.
-
We have always facing us the puestroln of quality.
There are many people who believe, and, they believe
wroagly , t b t q d i t y is %omMngthat depends upaa
the inspector b insure. Not&% muld be further
from the truth. Quality i s a three-lagged stool. Itfs
that engineer who did the design or laid out the te&,
it's t h ~ engineer
t
running the operation of the shop,
and then t h quality
~
inspgcbr. And those three bunctions must hold each other up. You rare not going to
have a good teat becaase you have rufl it through a
procedure if the, test engineer lets you h in setting
up the procedure. The- three elemente m e vital.
Yet I have seen many times when people thaught, as
long se we cover the item of quUQ, we have got it
made. That's wrong. M; W tQ be cavered with good
engineering, good shop operations, huad then good
quality.
I have seen in my experiendes at the Cape a number
of fafluree to do the pki correctly . One d the snes
that hounded us wae the matter of crossed pressure
lines. Ft is so easy to cross a pressure line. In designingthis equipmeat many of the wmectors all have
the same diameter. Human ene;b.n&&~rfng
for dfffermt
values oftea m e w weight, d of course weight is
at a premium with the h2lagWare we are working with.
So very often you'll find we have the same quick disconnect, maybe 3 or 4 in one bracket, they are all
quarter-inch quick itiacoanects These quick disconnects have the same serial number. But they d l have
different de&gnation numbers. In genesd, thie ha4
not happened once-it has not happened twice. You
will find two lines crossed connected. You pressurize
in one tank, y w believe, and you are reading your
gage out, k t ~rourpressure gws into another tank.
We have come very close to blowing t d e at the
launch site.
.
Now B$Y, "%%at
ia tfre probbtn ?" There are always
two tMltll:eq, I mfn#mmasf two. And them me
tkingr b t shodel mver happm. We can admstand
hafiran emor. As 1u &era are hum- be1ngs in
W s sy&em, we m e going to hawe eome degree of
human epi"~,
We &nlt bank OR^ two btugm error&in
enccewion. And %%atirwarfgbly hqqens w h n that
&&I is sent to us, aad whether is acmes eozutechr ,
or kt valve tk&t Ws t& be open or a vdve A sad valve B
emea eat sad a m m opens up the wrong one, you
will usally ffnd at,quality has let the shop d m .
Now h8X dd I m m that. There is always a problem.
You kaaw, ff f am good I &aft l i b mybody looking
over my shoulder .tellingme h t to do. Scl the qualitg
~ w a n b t o b e a i e e b ~ s b u d d y ot&ayews.
f
And
ohy,if 30e s e k ap that jab, lt must be good, because
Jbe set It up, The ~urtIiQman will somtimes sign
off in the blind, ft. W h ~ w n e d
more often %an you
would care to Wnk. When that quality man is letting
that h p p m , he is being Jm's wurst enemy. The ~ h u p
nttsdethe protecttionof the quality men to oheck every
step. And yet in our sktpobm, the errors we see
cannot b v e h~ppctrtedif two eyes bad looked at the
same job. One spes made a mirkrke and the second
eye bought it witbout looking.
We by&looked at a l i f i Mt of thet future, looked at
a lime bit of our experiemeer aad said, f ' W b have
~
we@ to g a m ? Wbithavewsgwt todotomake
sure we keep pressare on tha people ? The prewure
tu produoe the quality, to p ~ d u c the
e right enghensring ,t b qwistfon of beping everyone reaahlng for the
god ?I' Andas I have said, "We have not acfrieved our
gad yet. " We have shown we can do the job. I think
that is dear. We have shown we can do it. But this
does not mean success i e ours automatically. The
fact that you won last Saturday's game doesn't mean
you are goto win next %twdayls game. I don't
care how g a d you are. You win the next game on
what you put i& that game.
Apallo 18, sitting on its pad at the Cape, doesn't know
Apollo 11ever made the journey to the moon arid returned to earth. Apollo 12 sit8 there &one. And
Apollo 13is soongoing to @itthere. alone. And whether
those missions succetd or not, depends on what has
been done at the Denver plant, what haer been done at
the home pl& , the test d e s , and, finally, what has
been done at the Cap. We Bmrva got to approach each
epacecraft md each kmeh vetrfele with t b idea that
this is the big om. And what was done last month,
or 8 months ago, does not guarantee my success for
the future. fi we keep o w eyes focused on the ball,
and the j& to be do*, and if we apply the lessons we
have learned, there Ys no ~uestionin the future that
success will be ours. Thank you.
�APOLLO APPLICATIONS
PROGRAM PLANNING
WILLIAM C. SCUMEIDER
Director
Apollo Applicut i0hs Program
-
-
I was $rBcu1arlY intrigued by Roccois analogy with
the football team, and it led me to think if A p U o has
just had their opening game of what promises to be a
long and exciting season, U P is in the business right
now of just forming the league. We have the teama
beginning to form, and we are beginning to get our
ha,rrfwaee going, but we are wrfting s m e very new
;md different rules.
Jwt to give you an illustration, I was lsokiDg at a
plant newspaper Bob Gilruthts people put out here
last we& and I copied this ad out of it. Itsatid, "Availablefcw rent, 2 bedroom cottage, kitchen, bath, living
room, solarium, air conditioned, approved water
supply, bemtifd vim, attached garage. All utilities
supplied. Available March 1972 for suitable tenants.
Reasonable rent. Apply the Apollo Applications Offloe. " Well, I am going to tell you about that two bedroom oottage, because we are really entering i n U P
into an entirely new era. We are a bridge.
Figure 1 &owe what our official objeotiwas are as
laid upon us by NASA management, tlnd really what
t t r a P s ~ yis~"You, AAP, a m aprecussor spa- station,
axxiyou a r e also aprecursor spwe shuttle. " Now, our
objectives a r e to prove that, agsfn, man can stay in
space flight longer and longer, and whstBsmore he
cando some very usefulwork. So we have some wry
key tasks ih the medicalarea to extend the qualification of man, if you will, on out to where we end up
with a6 days and hopefully even longer than that. At
the same time, we are doing some w r y key thing8 in
the area of habitability. What do you need to keep a
man d i v e in orbit for 2 months at a time ? Yesterday,
for example, Dr. Mwller tald me, "Gee, why don't
we have rugs on the floor?If Well, wet are not quite
going to ham rugs on the floor, but maybe we will
exld up with wallpaper on the walls I These are very
key elementer, ;urd they tiwe leading directly into the
space station and space shuttle activity.
Inthe area of work we have about 70 different q e r i meats, and they range f r m fairly simple mindedw e a camera and M e mme pictures-to some extremely complicated experiments that are costing in
the neighborhood ol 70 to 80 billion dollars. They
cover a wide m e of bchnolegiiim. And, of course, a
whole batch of other things are going to keep the
tenants that we will have up there busy for their
period of time.
For those of you who may not be familiar with GAP,
I prepared Figure 2 to summarize what the missions
APOLLO APPLlCATlONS
BASIC OBJECTIVES
EFFECTIVE AND ECQNOMICAL APPaOACH TO THI. DEVELOPMENT OF A
t A S I S FOR WTEmlM FUTUBE SPACE PROGRAMS
FIGURE 1
�are. We recently made a change from what we had
termed the wet workshop into the dry workshop, and
we a r e now launching the dry stage of a SaturnS-IVB
stage on top of an active two stages of the Saturn V.
That will be pre-outfitted a s a workshop and will be
put into about a 235-mile-hQh orbit by the two atage
Saturn V. It will then utay there far abmt one day,
unmanned, at which time the solar rays will deploy
and the systems w i l l Wmlitically get ready to receive the first t h e e man crew, which will be launched
on top of a SaturnIB. (You remember theSaturnIB1s ?
They're at Michoud, and they wiIl stay there until
1972. Now there is a reliability and quality problem
for you as those vehicles sit there for that period af
time, a r e taken out of Storage, and axe than used b
put man into orbit?) The men will then go up upd join
the workshop. They'll etay there for about 28 days.
I have a thing about 28 days. I have set for myself,
as a program g o d , to change that to one month. bnd
then we go to laumh QB 31-day months. But anyway,
afterabout 28daye -28 io a magic number, it's twice
14, and we had 14 day mkestans in Gemini -the crew
will return to earth after having put f i t h e workshop into
a standby mode, and it will sit there and wait about
two months labr when the smond thme man crew will
go up sad rejoin the w u ~ h o p . They again will reactivate the systems, a d they tbis time will stay up
for two months, at whteh time they will coma back
down and then h u t a month later the tMrd cmw will
go up, aad they will repeat the cycle, dahg new experimenta and repeating some d the old experiments.
They will currently stay up there for tr period of 56
days. I don't know whether f should annowee It here,
because it aertaldy isa't official o r ham%besin worked
yet, but we are tryfnp; to extend thst mission to an
even longer duratim. I personally would like to m e
it go up to 120 days, altEtou@ that's just in the study
phase. Right now 56 days is our god.
program fnitiatee a whole new era. The cluster has
to work f o r 8 months. It has to survive being activated and deactivated repeatedly, and all of this at
minimumcostl Now, let me go into afew of theother
systems.
I will show you some of the problems that we have.
Figure 3 is theworkshap. The first launch is Saturn V,
t s i ~stages fueled. Third stage is the S-IVB, in this
case emptied andgsed, outfitted on the ground a s the
workshop. There will still be minor things to be
worked ug-and it is set up as this cottage that I spoke
of before. There are two active floors right now,
that io, the floor of o ~ l eside is the floor of the other
side. In other words, people stand toe to toe when
they a r e standing on the twofloors, and equippedwith
experiment areas 6LIICI various com~onents This i s
the major experiment that we have on top, which is
the Apollo telescope. It is a solar observatory, and
its task is to observe the Sun on a long-term basis
bringing back observations in aphotograihic sense, as
well as in the astronaut's mind, a s tn what has
happened at the Sun. Very interesting experiments
for astronomists
So now what are we talking h u t S What is the reliability goal that you people keep shooting for ? This
.
.
FIGURE 2
hoking at the pieces of equipment one at a time kind
of outlines for you the types of p r ~ b l e m syou are going
to be facedwith, or we arebeing faced with. Figure4
i s the air lock module, and its psrtioular problem is
that most of the a c t i ~ esystems in this, OP a good
number of the active systems in this, are Gemini
equipment. That is what I said, Gemiai 14-day qualified systems, and we ape now having to take those
systems and assure ourselves that they a r e now going
tobe available andworking for this eight month period,
of which five will be manned. So it represents a very
significant problem for the R&&Apeople. Not onlvdo
we have to worry about whether that hick in the h e ,
that Rocco talked about, is going to give us a short
on lift-off, it now also has to work up there for that
-5 5:-., .
.- .long period of time-a particular R&QA program.
1
.
�the Apollo comd and service module. But there
a m some very important hardware differences, which
are brought a b u t by the even more important differtmms in the way that we are using this equipment.
Ttlie equipment will be used to take the men into orbit.
.. the
.-.workrrho~. at
They will then transfer over into
whish tfmc tke cornand service module i s
emd down. That i s r , it is then allowed to remain there
in a very quid shte, without all of the power on, and
only those sy232ems operating thrtt we have to keep
heated up, and things like that. And it must be available for any emergency, rn the crew c m return and
come back. Obvicwely, then, it must be capable of
being turned oa and returned to earth safely. So it
looks the same, but it is doing a vastly different job,
in a different manner. And that brings us into some
veryfine subtilities in the qualprogram and the verification program that feed into our design and have
led us to some changes in the command module.
G-
Particularly In the command module (Figure 8) we
are adding a b m k p RCS tank so that we can have
alternate means,of deorbit Hopefully this will save
a tot of momy in the qua1 program, because now we
won't have to (EILalifp &e basic. service propulsions
system, whiah is a t we will rely on mos;tly tobring
UB bsck froon orbit, quite as 9s a~ it wwld if we
didn't have a backup system. Now theworlnshop areas
m e in here, t]Lre experiments area, &he air lock, the
multiple docking ctuf~tar,the ATM with its mlar rays
depbyed, of ooarm, t h e are the mlar rays in the
wozkshop and the eommand anEd semies module. In
orbit the major power supply is solar rays.
.
The next bulk on the front is the multiple docking
adaptor (Figure 5). This represents a NASA problem,
and your NASA R&QA people have a good task in that
Marshall is currently building the multiple docking
adaptor, and this means that we are interfacing with
the contractors, giving us interface problems, as
well as our own R&QA problems.
And I might also add, there was a lot of experiments
and pieces of equipment that are put into that, that are
fairly major in themselves,
I will show you one
a s r e go on (Figure 6). Up on the front is the Apollo
telescope mount. This too i s being assembled inhouse a t Marshall, with some considerable help from
many contractors. The experiments themselves a r e
provided by the principal investigators. The biggest
contractor being Ball Brothers building at least two
of the experiments, with some of the others being
built in-house, and others being built by other contractors. Very peculiar R&QAproblems are involved
here because these a r e scientific instruments. They
are being run by scientists who have different inclinations tfianperhaps our system's engineers, and a r e
requiring considerable effort on our part to make
sure that they a r e indeed good equipment, that they
are going to work for those eight months. This is
very complsx equipment as well.
T b workshop itself (Figure 9), a~ I said, is a twobedroom house. And it is. I'm not particul&rly
pleased with the layout that I am showing you here.
T h i ~is the layout we had for the wet workshop, and
I am sure that now that we don't have to have hydrogen
compatibility, we can make it a lotmorelivable. Yon
can see the view of the experiments area here, with
some of the experiments, a view into one of the bedroom@,the food area, the waste management area,
and the other bedroom is over here.
And I might add, regarding the Apollo telescope mount,
we feel that it has to work, because if that doesn't
work, I think that the space station will lose all of its
support from the scientific community. Because in
that piece of equipment, we are proving to the scientists that really, when we undertake a manned space
flight, we undertake a scientific task for the scientific
community and we are going to deliver. And it's of
very major importance to us that that does work.
Now the AAP shuttle is the Apollo command and service module (Figure 7). And for the uninitiated who
look a t it from the outside, it looks pretty much like
FIGURE 5
�This i s what are in awr ~ e ' w i s i kall~ the epme
waste mmagemmt arm ( F w e 50). I have taken
steps torenrunethis '*%He&,
tB Idm+tbmvhether
I'll be suwea&l in that. You ltaow we kind Of get
hung up--evwyow bas their o m IiWe kg-ups--aind
in space business wekind of have hag-upe
mmae.
B& it is the "head. It ira gius some major developmental pmb-a
bwawse it obvtotzblym&twork,
and it is tied diremay P
a
b oar
bemuse
part of our problem in tb rnmlkoal area ia to b r h g
back the w&e material f r a a t& nzen, the feoes
and the urine, so b y can be pmperly maly%edon
the p;rcrund, s~ the medics
indead s q in US, '*Yeah,
yscan go on axid put up a 1mg-duration space
station .I1
Some of the experiments that we are doing a r e quite
Wresting. I won't dwell on them,but a s I have said
them are mmeT0 sf &ern. But this i~ isnethat E find
pwtk2ulw1y interes(%igura, X I ) . We are going
ta be flaround inside of the spacwraft in an
attempt to lelearn a li€tle bit abaI extmvehiaular aotivitres. Hapefully, out of thfs we will figure out those
mwtr~ibtsthat there a r e on m m , in these srnd other
EVA experiments, s a ~ hthat EVAfs beaofne a fairly
routine thing. You b o w , in the future in the q a e e
station you won't pucker nearly a s bad as you do now.
One of the expwiments is complimeed m d large.
Figure 12 is f i e controi display f ~ the
r Apollo telemape mount, asd it wiil ke mounted in the multiple
FIGURE 6
.
FIGURE 8
. ,
FIGURE 9
�have EVA a s a p a d of otlr program, and it ehould
prom tts interesting as previoue EVA'e,
When a r e they going to dothi@? (Figure 14.) George
s d d we have n whedule that officially we say we a r e
committing caurwlves to Congress for July 1972. I .
order to aehieve that July of 1972, we have set our
internal goal of March of 72, I've been asked "1s
that j u d a fi@tious g d 7 Is i t just a pad ?" Believe
me, we will go in March of 72, if the hardware is
ready. And we have established a s a program policy
that we a r e ncrt going to allow sandbragging on equipment deliveries. If Part "ATtfalPsbehind its delivery
scb9dule to the Cape, we are aot going to relieve all
other equipment of their delivery dates. We a r e going
to, asbestwe can, keepthings in storage and wait for
ail of the things to come up. We do, indeed, want to
FIGURE 10
FIGURE 11
FIGURE 12
FIGURE 13
docking adaptor. It is kind 6f like the complexity af
a DC-8 c w o l e , aMt lyou can see all the witchee and
all the indicators that me necessary to run these five
ATM experiments, oontrol the vehicle, control the
ATM,
watch what you are doing. The mtranaut
loolss at what the Sun is doing en Wse displays here,
and then records the activity on film.
And we too have our o m moments of EVA which a r e
going to give us our momenb in WQA. f h r EVA is
neaessrrrrgr in ApoUcrApplicatiens i.n order to r e i e v e
the f i b from tlae ATM (Figure 13). 60 we will still
�hit that March of 72 date. We b e three revisits
planned, as I er;fid, a d we have one bactrup emxma31d
and service module. In the- cards, bppefully, as
Dr. MueIler &m&dyou in the h%egratd p h i , is s
second worltsshop. N m that s e m d war4Esbp is
basically the b & d qEsqclipmeat, ref&lshe-d chnd with
some modificatbns on it ferwhbh our eurmtplaw~ed;
launch date is fn J m w y 1614. That too would b v e
same refurbished oamrrren%l a d mrviee modules a s
this one again and we wfll re-en@eer tt sad &mild
it, and put it ba& in, and fly thatup for three 120-day
misstons.
Now, I did mentian k passing, refurkishment. I
guess we in AAP are pa*
t
b way, d~~ we did
aad gome h&%h e n
a LiWe bit of this bmk in Ge-t
aone Ifn Apono. Part d o w c o m & and service
module philosophy ts to reuae ptw, a d some considerable part8
POI$.&
eo?mad & service modules rfpllrt there ape things k t barwe gane to the moan
and back. This L providing quite a melattoo to our
public &'fairs p e o ~ v#ho
t ~ orre w d w h g where they
are going to get all the Apallo ~ p w ~ e ~ s fto
t pput
r in
the museums. We told them, f ~ 8 5want pof than,
and &ef! are just nno2 g a i q to b v s &am fos .display.
k t seriously, we are planning m
m a y pmirb
FIGURE 14
that have flown beforekey parts, not TVcameras,
htztehes, and &hga like that. We are even l&g
at, although o decision basn4t bean made, not by a
Lortg shot, "Can yon reuse heat shielder?" I'm sure
yeu C B L ~reoqpize what kiml of implication that has
in the R&$A area.
W d , f%ve said thie befose, and I'll say it again real
quickly, AAP is to spwe stat;Tm,what Gemini was to
Apollo. We olre the bridge, We w e paving the way.
We don't ap%ct that we will solve all the problems,
but we have undertaken to provide answers in a number of areas, and we
that objective of bing
t r m s i t ~ r y ,of transferring our rnamed spwe flight
thi&.iagfrom event being a launch, a lunar mission
aad refwn ta living @workihg inapace (Figare 15).
So we are wthe rule8 ri@k now, a.nd we need a
106 of help in Xke B&QA wea, axid in every area, in
what the -pr*r su3m u e that we ehould apply tn
make om ~pacearrmf2more like &craft, things that
are derigml for multiple gnuyosea, multiple uses
and, of course, long duration.
-
-
Well, gentlemen, that c m l u d e s my brief discussion
of what AAP I@. TIE& you very much.
FIGURE 15
�THE
MANAGEMENT
CHALLENGE
LEE JAMES
Director
Progrum Management
Marshdl Space Flight Center
Gaud morning, ladies and gentlemen. It wems to be
the order d the day to start off with a football story.
I did ncrt bring one. I have been trying to think of
some analogy; one that might apply is that Rwco
Petrom and f had the s t m e coach, Earl B1&. We
sttU have the m e caach, George Mueller; we are
stillon a winning t e r n anddthmghwe made one goal,
the season is nat yet over.
What I plan to do in a few minutes this morning is to
put into p e r s p t i v e where we are in the Apollo Program, particalarly as it q p l i e s to manavment of the
Safxrn Launch Vehicle Program. It seems to me that
if spa6e can hsve a crossover point that we are now
there. No matter how you describe it, the initial
Saturn-Apollo Program is over, The Apollo job-to
put man on the moon and safely return him to earthhas beendone euwessfdly. On just the other side of
the cm.ossaoverpoint are tBdayfs programs. These programs include further lunar exploration and Bill
S e w e r ' s Apollo Applications Program-tvfo vastly
different progmms. Further downstream from this
crosmver point a r e some things that are quite glamO]POUS,
Thase are the future programs. They include m a g challenging things like @ace shuttles,
large space ~tations, tugs, nuclear stages, Mars
exploration, etc.
Today, P am not overly concerned With the succese of
the ApoUo Program because it is over. I am not concerned abbut h s e glamorous programs down the
line-the mes &at Dr. Mueller demrfbed. Somehow
the Government and industry have the ability to apply
themselves most d i l i g d y to glamorous new programs, and we will probably do a good job on each
of them. I m esomewhat cbnc~rned,though, with
today's progpms. Theae programs, consisting of
further lunar exploratSon and the Apollo Applications
Program, a r e a r d chdlsnge to us. However, I
am not sure that we are' equipped for that challenge.
Let us sepzcrate and briefly analyze these challenges.
First, the Apollo Program had a number of things
going for it, It was, a clearly established national
objective. I do not Wpk at the time the President
made that objective for us thatwe realized how great
a thing he had done. The e e w of a goal gave the
ApaUo Program a big push. Next, the Apollo Program was supported by the general public. That may
not mean much to us wCfl the general public does
not support a program, and then one certainly takes
note of it. Third, the Apollo Program had a certain
amount of international support. We may not realize
what that means until oar Government becomes concerned about lack of international support.
Internally, the Apollo Program was supported in a
number of different ways. There was a vast industrial base solidly behind it and that really provided
momentum. It has a vary strang Government base
behi& it, and I do not mean NASA alone; it included
the Bureau of the Budget, the Congress, qnd the Department d Defense. There were a lot of members
on that team. Next, there was a very strong scientific interest. The scientific community was highly
intrigued by the Apollo Program and gave it full support. I, personay, would like to Submit that the
Apollo Program had go@ leadership everywhere it
needed it-in the Government, in industry, and in
Congress. Lastly, to get down to the nitty-gritty, it
had what it needed most: manpower, facilities, and
sufficient dollars to get the job done. The combination makes for a successful program, and we have
had a successful program.
We had our problems in Apollo. I think some of you
are aware of that. We had technical problems. Exotic
new materials were developed and we had to learn
�The -lo
Propam was auob that we c a l d haw
stn
~ e w 3 s P a2am3B P ~ WaB
d gx& by wit& &. But the
pulbli~ Bf3t m(t&&
wfa-~w
f@ &@ PEO@'alll
leam tobandietfa8 sheer #beof
p r o p o a . There
;are some seveB prlnzes bt the Ektufn. It mems a
x
astronomical f a t to bring, tEme after tlnna, aa4
launch after W m B , ewen major wzt%tPes to bar at
exactly the m e mont$!at. SO WC
l B wePe those of
you and &om of ua who
to hurry up a& wait.
This caused praXl1ew.
-
We W acme s i f p i f i c ~ haPrfware losses during our
tests and daring o w prflfgbt d v i t y . I mt totalk
more about &at tn a mimute. Wa hod a Viet Ham conflict that is red and is with
and that e&
be
overlooked. M had its Me&. As the prv$ram re&%&
the peak, we immedfgtely experimed eerfaua manpower rBdLlcttoBs. Ha m&m" h* you cut it, e v a
in the midst of a go.infF pm&rm, e m thug% it L
pla.med
m a though iit ,is aokhing new, it is dways tenuws to a m e df the w a p w e r cum, We
had man$-&o=C1y
maybe mms than any of u s
realized-human emrs in the propam.
.
We had whatone might term a major program c a a trophe with the l@ss d 204. The aocirl.ent w w f a
more s@ifbant than my oher p??&blern o r sucaess.
It was Biglacant lsecmse ft W@S rtE that mom@ that
we learned w b t atenuous rmP%&ge m dl Pivet on.
We le&
what a short di~),lame
it i s from being
known as a n&ianal macess ta b&g known M P mtional failme. We learned how cpliokty om can lose
public support andfdlwing, n a t u l d l ~ Conglrembal
,
support. While we lost 3 I& whan this failrrzw occurred, aver b a m d r IN tm. We. W
him, for
at this p i n t we facad a rdlty Mtat said, f v Ycannot
~
get there from b t e without arbsolately btal wzecerp9
from here on in." Portmmtdy, we had that.
.
at t b htgb emt mme%sary.tcs $kt tb progrm ~Oarted
And n s W r is t
b Baremi .of Bx?get, Ccmgres8, or
anybody dm. We Iram to faai up to %hat. After the
kpollo wwwa, we
to do mm&ing &o& iawerfag t b mat. We met Pkitb your hfhetrlal leaders,
same of you here today, aa8 deeided that a 5Opement
reduction p d was tfi the ball park for the follow-on
B*rans,
We have redimad the oost 50 gement. We
all agreed to Wa, a d it is firm. The Bumau of the
Budget barsc now a&ybd these figttres a d they are
w h t we bars pjsfa to live wi&. The reductim is no
I q a r rr porrsibilf%,p-.lt i s n fact1 Uf oourBe, I think
everybod$ has Been Bask ta see me w s Oo~ a y , "You
realiee W
k 60 p Y m t did aot s d y apply to US.
But it does tqpIy asrose & e M . l W a requires us
to transfar a m fmm an RdD a o n q t which allows
c-es
and t&sVts,
statlc tests WG!&P?P niee-tohave, be3 e x p n s i ~ etkihg8
~
tQ a proctuction concept
where . a ~ gare &&&nf ta have .static testing;, frequent
change@,amd. t
b 6.aie&ia. DldleELon ol rstatic
testizig pr~ludehlprs-~pWaahwko&. When you do
&athave Statio tarsting, you Q not haye a p08t-static
@heckoat.We will have pod-m811ufactufng checkout,
then go directly to launch. This means that some of
the things-mistakes, maicfents, human errors-that
have been happening cannot be allmad la happen
any more.
Now let us briefly consider the GAP Program that
Bill Scheider d e w r h d to you. As I see it, and in
the perspective that I am trying 'to make, the AAP
Program b
a
r many of the same features of the Apollo
Program, and several drastically different features.
In the firer place, I thl[lrtc it has dl the complexity
Apollo had. WB are trying to do b the AAP aprogram
every bit as complex as landing man on* moon and
returning him serfsty to earth. On the other hand, we
are not building up sr big hardware inventory. In
We have hadother a.chr!i@a
tbi-qs, like natural&astrophies, wt&
BBuPrlcaag G&e.
Tfse~ething@ Awllo, our plane said, "If you do not make it on
AS-501, how about AS-505, 48-513, even AS-515 1''
are part Qf tha prqgmx, Wmy gf 6he: k a c i h t a I
havedeecrihi are whkm w d d e m t i n the course
In U P , there will be two shots. It is a program
of a large p r o g r w They happened, aod f o ~ ~ ~ l that
y , build@up and &noat immdiatelg cuts off. So it
the propam W e m g h g ~ h for
g it b werocme W s e
is different in that r e s p a t , Another big difference
adversities and czapitdize upon moat failures.
is that AAP is not a -11-funded
program. We are
gofng to do this aa, what I call, a shoe-string. This
Now, I would llke to tdk hM3 aboat where we a r e
is a cbstllenge. So what h v e we accumulated taday ?
today. Aa hos been mentimed b earlier 8peeches,
We have accumulated a program with funding; less
we have 18 Satume in the last
of produotian,
than its challenge, We have built some hardware
test, or checkout, & yet:to be beamched They are
that we have got to use over sr period of time to make
not schsdaltxl for fl@t right sway. Some of .thebe
that work. And 1 say to you, that i@a real challenge.
are built and stared, others d
l soan be ccmpbted
and it is goin;$ to be a 1- perfrv8 of Hrne befare we
Now, I ask myself some questiom. Can we continue
use all of t h m . mil61 i~9a pQbl&n. These stagae
to improve and maintain the quality of this hardware
are going to k aomgtleted br fmms that a m be&
under them W o of conditions"l~;an we make a
dismantled. TBGsa g t ~ e %re
s p i a g to tw launched by
transition from an B&D type of kunch vehicle to a
teams tbat are samewhat rlismtmtltad. Believe me,
sta.adard production type larxlloh vehicle and make it
this is r problem l And in the midst of taking what
work at this point intheprogram i" Can we aoaomplish
wre might call old vehiolers
finding out how to use
the task within our budget ? (ff we do not coma within
g~o$r;ilfls, we are entering:
them for our on-goour budget, and that means 50 percent leas than it
into a follow-w pmgr%mfar the pmduction of d i has been, it has to come out of something. Thsre
tional Saturn V Lautach VehI6les.
d
l be no new funds for it. I think I have just de-
.
�scribal that M a p s pm@!am, like Wll zllbicPerer's,
certainly is not go- to previae for it.)
I w d d say that it is nice to ride along on a program
like Apollo.
Can we keep the Wenticxi of those workers who have
a slightly different perspective of tkis whole Wng
than maybe mmagement does &day ? Caa we motivate the people with the critical skills to transition
from the dimbishing program thqt we have today to the
f ollow-on program tbt has ta build up ? C m r e convert to a completely different program philosophy ?
Maybe you have not thuught about it, but ean we really
succeed in a m - c r a e h program atmo~phere:! The
funding anct the over& situatkon dictate a --crash
program atmosphere. We have a lot going for us.
We have a tremendous team built up. We have a
successful program. And goodness b o w s , we have
a challenge.
I have selected one launch' vehicle, which I do not
Now, I w&t Q address the situetion one other way.
What I h a w triedti19 do is talk about Ihe &$olio P q g r m
and the trm%S%hn
to the f o I h - o n prqpzaa. IRt us
lo& at the &dl9 P r ~ r 8 m
with the eyer of tk9 astronaut# f o r just L ~)etx&, QllCf Q e tranritian just allttle
bit .l&ir. I t&ed thrm@ m m e paperr t b t I had
and ea- ap W@.h cfuotras from a uoslple of the astronauts. For 'Ohe lmk ingo the pwt-the look int6ApolloI wmld like ta; r e d Urese.
The first me 19 SranzMfke!W l L s dhr tfis,A p i l o 11
flwk
$Xe saki. "Any flight like this is
tm&einely
long, PragiZe, daisy c h i n of evsnts . The mallwwtion
of euzy one of the Zhsurw& d piecgdl of b-9
on
the way could ruin the remainder of the mission.
-spite the fact that I have great confidence in each
i n d i . . a l item of equipment, f was a little peasimistie
about our chances to carry the whole thing off. I
figured that any chain as long and tenuous a$ this had
to have a weak link. Believe me, I spent a lot of time
before the flight worrying &out that link. Could I be
it ? Could my training have neglwted some vital bit
of information l Or had I been properly errposed but
simply forgetful ? By launch day, I was convinced
that I had taken d l the steps within reason toprepare
myself, and I hoped that the t h o u s d ~d others re~ponsiblefor the equipment prepamtion had doae the
sms. Obvi~us1y,$bey had, because the pdormance
of the! whole
was n~fhingshshsrt of pelrfeotiicsn. l'
This fs bow o m feels abuut a ~suoowsfulflight. Neil
A m f d : ~ rk@t
,
here ia tam s t the Rice Hotel on
A-t
12 said, "It would seem thaa in mm%amdiUons
we Would be expectsd to be verylonelyhr away from
home' and alone. The facts are, I m e r felt less
lonely in my Me. In every piece Bf equipment, in
every corner of the @wec~a.€t,iti every cabhat, and
in every piwe of scientific apipmcaat we carried to
the surface, I felt the hands and the spirit of those
who were riding dong;on Apollo 11. Those pieces of
equipment were superb. They brought to my mind the
proof of the return (and I like that word) the return
of 'American craftsmanship. ' And as some of us,
some of you, turn from this program to even more
challenging adventures of tomorrow. you will take
with you the knowledge that craftsmanship, initself, is
a worthwhile objective. So to all of you and those who
you represent, I say thanks for riding along. "
choose to Identtfy,to illustratethe task mface in our
continuing program. On this one vehicle, we traced
some of the following errors to human beiflge. Fortunately, all of them were caught.
a Two of seven helium filland dump valves, which
had passed acceptance test and which had just
been checked, leaked.
A broken position switohpin and a short circuit
valve in the LOX vent and release valve previously had passed a visual check.
a Tie-down straps used duringfurnace brazing of
the thrust chamber were found wedged in the
upstream side of an engine. The straps hadnot
been r e m o d during regular cleaning.
a An electrical harness showed heavy rust
deporsfts
Water sLnd a broken pin in one connector were
caused by improper insulating by someone.
Corrosion and a bent pin were f d in the connector af the flight control transducer and an
O-ring; was laft out of a mating cable connector;
all due to human e r r o r during rework.
Corrosion notea in the flight instruction harness
c o m c t o r was cms& by ttmis8ing.U-ringwhich
allowed moisture to enter.
&
offset
i weld p r d m o c m e d during cireumferentf;il welding d the I,&
tank forward bulkhead to cylinder six, primsirfly due to improper
zmmufactklring and qyality control of the diame b r measurements.
a During post-manufacturing check, a screwdriver was dropped and penetrated the wall of
an engine thrust chamher.
a LOX tank baffles were destroyed during too fast
propellant loading.
a An LH2 tank insulation problem indicated
le&s and debonds caused by poor installation
processes.
a Leakage a t the main oxidizer valve idler shaft
vent point check vdve wars cwrsed by ecmttmination from a change of lubricant. The vendor
did not follow specs,
An LH, a d drain valve ruptured causing much
damage to the skirt ducting.
.
All of these were on one vehicle, Fortunately, they
were caught.
I pointed out earlier that we now have checks we were
not going to have in the future, that is, pre-stdio,
post-static, and static tests. 1 doubt ifyou would like
to be riding dong with Neil, Euz-, and Mike if some
of these things had not been caught and corrected.
There are only two ways to stopthese errors with the
programs we have, One is not to let them happen,
and the other is to catch them. It is probably going
to take some of both.
Now I would like to carrythat just a little further and
show you some things that were not caught in time,
We traced a number of things that were found on
�W o u s vehicle@at one tima or wrrther that had a
h m m link involved in t h a n ars oppesed to something
that may have been wron$bydes@. in Figure 1,the
X's that a r e sbow in tae 8Sffezmk stqes represent
such items. The e W d arew plppsw& -to-aallos618s
that were caused b9 same k3nd af fault. I think ft ts
interesting to mte &at we have onlyflwn six kturn V
vehicles, but already we are finding a signififfant
numbered Uke things b A & S l l ~ d ~ - 5 1 2 We
. must
catch these things. The follow-on vgihicles, M-516
through AS-521, a r e now under purchase. In the
follow-on, we are going to have a lot fewer plwes to
catch all these 'thing@.
Turning now to same piecsa d hardware (Figure 2),
&is usad to be a tank dome. Whm this was shipped,
it hsrd two dust caps. One
located inaide a piece
of tubing; another was ~ u t s i d ethe tubing, Upon
arrival for tests, the dust cap was Wen off the outside, and dr presaum indicafor put on. However, the
&st cap was left onthe inside tsnd the pressure indicator w w showing zero when actually the pressure
was a b ~ u 25
t p ~ i a . The bulkhead reversed, pulled
away from the joints, and rmulted in the damage
you 5ee. This stage (Figure 3) was lost clue to a vendor employee swing fit to change the weld filler to a
pure titanium. Thb L the result of that one change
FIGURE 1
FIGURE 3
FIGURE 4
�by a human., And we have h u r n m in our eysktm.
Figure 4 r e p r e s e ~ t uan interesting ease. A static
test was a b u t tt, start when the crew found a leak a d
shut dewn. After shutting down, they disconnected
some preseurs indictataxi to the tank. Tfng next shift
came an, decided to presmrise and look for the leak.
Since the pressure indieatore did not show a problem,
they overpressurized and this is the result.
hydrostatlc ted neared completion, a problem QCcu&.
We needed &adump the water in a hurry, but
we did not have a procedure to do it. Hence, a complete loss of the stage.
]In Figure 3 p e r b p s we did not carry oplr prwedures
f a r enough. Thiar war r strtlctmd Bat vehicle, BLlld
since we q e o t m e t failure in stntctural tester, we
preelsRlriad it with water to avoid s blast. A s the
Figwe 6 shows a very recent incideaThit happened
on AS-511. K i where the man is pointing, there
ie a polyurethane shippiag dim that is included with
this unit for protection. It was left- in daring test
preparation&. The result was a major leakage during
the static test and a major fire which possibly was not
extingulhed quickly enough. Hence, major damage
to a very recent stage.
FIGURE 7
FIGURE 8
�Figure 7 represenM a Wemnt- k b d of r thing.
& C have sr r s M c €eat
October 17, we were
at sur Nlisslssippi Te& F&.Wy, We p00Q~ogad thst
test although the eqa@mat ww m d y to go, alP#ere
was one contpactar whe diq not feel rnmtdly ready
to go. Now that 161 w y to understand s h e WI$)
was
a residential difstrict uvhem w y d tttoetD ~
~
employees live, in Pass C'til-isrright after Euzrtcane Camille.
I do not want to getfueraod tnWs. Mt I m t f y b g
to do is to paint a picture fer ym. -6
iS, it cbies
not take m a y of #eae fdlurgs (F&~r%r
8) to %k@a
national p r o m h t is goiw -11, d cost it out of
business. It does not taka matay of tbt~sisef a W e s to
reverse a national tread. It sZoes wt W e much
make a failure out of o s u c @ e e a space progrm.
Therefore, we w ~ adCess
t
ta such r
possibility.
In ret~ospec%,
when M e e d 1T1
came to me, X WS t%@W
%%,
that would a 8 t
m q ,d
that C Q B new
~
mcmey d e w It
coming b d . The p d h k ~
kept coming up, SQ wwe put. $am
Iwsluldlikc say., againfn f
money well spent.
~
--
pt
The Ikfttsmed F wA w w m m Pmgzaa
qm~tezs,i f ~
vatiibnd mated&+
W € i p r i d h , Zt
contrstetos plants,
has IPIQ~~'YI;~M
the workem d &e parbliu to be aware
of our space program. I &inis it has done a great
job. Mmg of as represt?rat the mmqgement aspect of
the
pmgrarn and I do aot Wnk h t wehave too
muah of a problem foreseeing somewhat into the
frtture, George Mue;Uep described st beautiful futme
~O-T
that is probably going to carry on the re&
Cdl Of USF
of this oaturjr. I Wnk all of as will m a a g e somehow under this. But I submit to you this morning that
am burnag beings-some in your organization,
some in miae-that ws have to worry about. W e are
aaw ~ontpM%g&age@withwelders who know they are
gpiag; to be laid off. We m e completing stageis with
sheet metal manufacturers who have their termination
mtiees. We are putting in enginesbuilt in plants that
have virtuaIly ishut down their productiosl line. I submit to you that this is a problem that cannot be solved
by the lHarmd Fligbt Awwmess Pmg~am,at least
not m we iohm it Way. An ostroaautfs visit to those
p l a t s wiUL bt4lp. But f do m t think an astrcm&utts
visit ts the plant can sn$mlve the kind of problem that
we have today.
I do net'bve mewerr to t b i ~
problem. I do feel that
from this m e e I should go back a d worry about
out what to &, You should gobwk a d
it, and
worry &out it atgd fiflam oat what to do, too. I am
not stwe that we have %%e mems Of getting through the
immcsdittb years, if we do not innovate beyand where
we are right now.
�ASTRONAUT
PARTICIPATION
IN THE
MANNED FLIGHT
AWARENESS PROGRAM
MAJOR STUART A. ROOSA
Astronaut
Those of you that are sorry that Tom Stafford isn't
here, well, I sympathize with you. I feel the same
way, and I also realize that probably the best speech
I could give is a short one.
But seriously, the MFA program in our office is a
personal thing. I t i s probably the only direct link that
we have to the people, the literally thousands of people,
that are building the vehicles. Mow, we spend quite
a bit of time at some of the contractor facilities,
climbing in and out of spacecraft, checking them out.
You can sign a Snoopy doll, or give a Snoopy pin or
something like this but in our normal duties we don't
get to the majority of the facilities involved. I realize
there a r e a lot of you here that have requested personal appearances, and have been turned down so
many times that youthinkwe a r e not interested. That
is really not true, we do feel thatit's veryimportant,
Roeco Petrone made the statement, and Iwill steal it
from him, "One vehicle does not know what the other
has done. The only continuum we have is the people.
And so from our office, through the MFA program,
we do have a link with these people. I know the personal appearance requirements are given every consideration within the Astronaut office. Lack of time
is why more requests a r e not honored.
I know there a r e some people in this room who a r e
quite familiar with our schedules, and not to belabor
the point, I would just like to say that we stay quite
busy, but we aren't unique in that respect either. I
would be willing to bet that we could take 50 of you
and have you do your job, and you couldn't meet all
requests either.
We do feel that the people-to-people approach is a
good one. When you go to a plant, the enthusiasm and
the warmth that you feel from the people is real rewarding. And it is good for us to visit with these
people. I asmme it is also good for them to see the
users of their product. Take the person that is bolting
the heat shield on the command module, he can get
pretty motivated, thinking of the consequences. But
all the little things a r e so very important also. For
example, a fountain penthat you a r e goingto be using
on a one-man contingency rendezvous. The data
comes up on the computer quickly and you have got to
copy it before it's gone, we can't afford afailure with
that fountain pen either. And from my standpoint, a s
far a s getting ready to fly on 14, and from the office
a s a whole, we a r e real concerned about the little
things. We a r e real concerned right now during this
transition period. We feel this direct link to the
people is important. I wish we had more time to
participate in those personal appearances. I guess
if you spent all your time doing that, you wouldn't be
training to fly, and then nobody would want to talk
with you anyway. So it is sort of a vicious circle.
We a r e already well past lunch time. I would just
like to say, from the crew office, "Thank you for the
support that all of you have given the MFA program
in your facility. I t I would also like to continue on with
the theme that "We've got to keep up, and get out the
good work, right now. " You know that is really important to me between now and next July. And also to
assure you that we a r e shying busy, and we don't
turn down those personal appearance requests needlessly. We appreciate your support, and we ask that
you continue. Thank you very much.
��WALTER F. BURKE
President
McDonnell Douglas
Astronautics Company
Gentlemen, I would like to say that I am very honored
to be given an opportunity to talk at this seminar. I
am r e d l y just filling in for Charlie Able. Be was
called away on a very urgent matter t&y ,and I have
besaaslmd to step in and try to pass on the message.
h l o ~ k b gat the Manned Flight Awareness that we're
sio auciws to be sure works, I'd like to go back a
lifflr bit and t ~ lwhy
l
I think the Government, and
~
~ W k ,is leoming to ythe right @proup of
peepla, namely tlw aerospace industry, and the aircraft industry as the managers of some of these extremely large tasks.
As you recall, b k in the very eaxly beginnings of
any aermaIrtical endeavor, there was a very quick
r8coWtion of the fact that intense research of a very
deep Cchnologieal area was needed in order to make
the rate d progress that was desired. This brought
about, in the early days, the establishment of the
NACA, where it was found that the depth of investigating the number of tests required and the caliber of
t h e d y . r a t e was extremely important, andin fact, was
the Iamdstion stone of America's aircraft industry
today, and I think we can look b k there and see the
very beginnings of this Manned Flight Awareness
Program,
telling you too fkccuratelymy age,
I oaa sssure you that I have taken part in many of
these early activities f a r enough back to be very
familiar with such things aa terminal velocity dives
and spin program. You no longer even hear about
them, but at that time they were the first and only
ways we had to get irrto the structure of the airpIane,
and into the response of it those features that would
give tbe astronaut, o r as he was then called, the
aviator, a chstnce to perform his duty and survive.
Although we do a much more sophisticated job today,
it ~ r t a i n l ystemmed from the deep interest and the
groupof peoplethatweregenerated at that time giving
us their total lives in dedication to the aerospace
industry, and it so happens that right now many of us
who a r e just getting into it a r e luckily still involved.
I say luckily and thankfully because to me I wouldn't
have picked a different job if I could start all over
q a i n . I'm m e fellow that was absolutely happy with
what he chose a s a profession from the first day,
and I wouldn't get out of it except by force o r age,
Now when you get close to the activity of the space end
of the business, namely our spacecraft themselves,
I would fortunately connect it with the company that
was involved in both Mercury and Gemini, and when
we started Mercury you can be sure that looking out
for the astronaut was not only a very important thing,
but it was a brand new idea of how to assure the
astronaut's safety in a vehicle that we at that time
could not plan to bring back and try over again, so it
had to be a success on every shot. There was to be
no averaging out, no statistical high score. It was
decided it had to be a success 100 percent of the time.
Now to get that, we spent many long weeks and months
with everybody that we could collar, trying tofindout
the problems of environment, trying to whittle down
the chances of thermodynamic o r electronic failures,
doubling up on any system that could possibly be a
trouble maker, sending all kinds of animals, frankly
both pigs and chimps through our test program, trying
to find out what the effects of shock on the piglets
which we dropped in specially designed cultures in
the hangar in St. Louis were. In every case, trying
to find out how to better make the vehicle give us a
100 percent chance that man would come back from
the mission.
I r e d 1 receiving a letter from Dr. Wernher von
Braun after he had walked through our shop in which
he felt that we certainly could stand a much better
�approach to She O ~ I rma*
I
Far &f31161. we kw k e n
forever
WO@m$N.@Ws mstlodar phase
of it, and we%@dim@a
4 4 in deveE.~~imt@:
so called +'wbtte r~0.m"w 4rclezlaroomt*approach to
the total mauned sd o r t that we've been in. We
also had cowern about our Zest procedures. Did we
k n o w h o w t o b & B P 3 ~ d t & d a n g w ?W p i t e t b
years of flying and the thousands of fl&&
wit& test
pilots, we still hati nst rwehecj th& peak of mental
acuity WLat Clh you that yoa atre &OM the p p e r
thing. As a matter ob feet, in o w of our @@sly
space
chamber rune, we veygpg nearly lost one of our own
wtronauts, Burt Nor&, primarily for a lack of dry
running Ziests in maH= s u e tkt everybody not o d y
uaderstcaod what to ch, WWthe test was going well,
but particularly, what to do quickly if the te& started
to deviate from the plan. This brought W t a whole
new approach b order of magnitude as to our p r e p rationfor tests whenwe had astronauts involved. The
same thing happened when uvcs built our larger space
we had fire
chambers. We had escape &iUties,
possibilities and equipment in there for extinguishing
any fires. Despite the f&ctwe iPf.lt we wtonldnvtsee a
fire, we did have pmvisians for b t b eztinguishhg it
and removal of the astronauts. We trained dlligen*,
not only f o r the succesishtl mission, but for dl the
possible deviations one might consider at all likely.
This waa our initiation, p u mig;ht say, to be aware
of the value of the man, a~dlmake our men aware of
the value of the mission.
nor the f h m M s.tsuettm to handle one of these
mslJ6r bc@be@ pmqgm~w. Eamver, that one program
sucha as a m have carnot b~ i&eE r e d l y stlpport a
total indwtry oorgaaimtion. There were twiny thi.agg
on Gemini and Memury,
in conneMon with our
6-NB that 1 I e \ r . e c d not b e been available to
improve the caliberof eqnigment toprovide the capabilitbs, bad these mk been many other business
activities
oa ia that qgmfzaffon, The manner
in whlahwe k v e stmmaq*
emmat of amgineering
for a rdaiwely rr d mmwat sd h m m delivered,
does mean that you have to call on hoflities ,particularly in the manuibturing rarea, t;brrt youwould otherwise not be able to &Bard, And J$% tbe simultaneous
exfsteme of &r large pmgra8o.a within s company
which provldm the capZtal to give 3 ~ this
r capability.
We find tbat there a r e sametima some concerns of
interfasaacw bfmeen wr program for you in one
particular w e , and for t
hAir Farce in a competing
case, and for aommercial bpslit~msin another. It's
our dete~?znUW&mand o w ceefrieticm tW$it's the
combin&an of these in a company && pr~videathe
real muee1~atrd L e hark, wsllioh &I t
b olrsh, to go
ahead aac? M e one of t k a e big progrsms. But
every problem, o r every instance such as t h i ~obviously brings about some problems that a r e peculiar
t~ ibelf. I would like to address myself to just a
few of a w e .
We then, at the very early dagrzs of Wk&mry prior
to w e n launrihtttg the first m w d Hercury witb Al
S h e p b d , were acmzMme'd very cloeely over an
extended period af time by gl coznmitrt;ee called the
Welsner C o m m i ~ .TMs W e f ~ n e rCommittee was
s e t up by the Government to make an indwendent
evaLuat1an d just what we *re &iw7hrnv we were
doing i t , did we kwrw what we were doing, a d could
we d e l y agree to launch #e man? This bolt us
over every aspect of the d e s w of +be vehEcle, every
aspect of the test, tt wry ~
l personal
~
e scrutiny,
man by man for your rna~vation, for your in;teml
thinking. You felt &oduteIy bare in front of them
before €hey got through, and as we went through this
we became convineaxid aoae thing-thstweladneither
the time, nor the mollea, to have a convfnoing statistical record thdwe w d d haBe no failures. The anly
answer to that, then, hrasl t@ be that every &hotstands
on its own, and every ghat must wmk 100 per-cat by
itself, and the o d y guan%nte&far that is the CP&manship of t
b men, the mmagernenkof the p~~
the sWU of thedesigners, md the team work between
the cotltracbr and 6he customer. Far one, I am a y
we have nBver worked with any group &st rivaled the
NASA persoriuel in giving us &is team work. It's
unmatcherble wi& mything I've been connmbd with,
and Z believe I am speak wiPh equal authority for the
people with whom I've heen in co&&.
How are we going to motivate the permmel? As I
look around tbe- room hem, I notice very, vary many
faces that I've ssenbsfor@at the m e kind of meeting,
and I remgnizta that the purpose of this meeting is
really dud. Itfs fimt to remotivate we t b t a r e sitting
hem with the sole purpose of going back home and
really motivating b e that a r e not present at the
meeting. As the space program. eonfinues, and as
was well said before, the probability Is that most of
us here will stay in it, that we a r e the ones that have
been in it befwe aad are likely to control who stays
in it, so we will, liking our own personal jobs, very
well try to stay in it ourmhebs. But &e hundreds and
thatsands of people whose craftsmaniahip we counted
on may not be as SerZlrnate as that. Some of the
competition will come just in the very n a b r e of aur
engineering pemonnel. W i t creative engineering
pemomel, the space program could net have been as
succes~fulaa it is. A creative person is very seldom
a very patient person. He is anxious to progreaa
personally, as well a s being a part of a live team.
He definitely has to be kept motivated when a tempo
slows d m a little, ancl itre in this ama'that we are
going t o find, I believe, the most criticd problems.
How to keep the areative engineering talent charged
up if the program t e m p slows down appreciably. We
have ways in a large oompany of moving people from
one large operation to an-r,
from one activity to
another. At the same time, if we want to be able to
call on them instantly, we muat find a way to keep
them enough involved in the space activity that they
really never lose tbir touch witb it. We cannot
afford to let them go for three or four years into the
commercial business, o r to the military business
and suddenly just draft them and pull them back and
~~~.
From naw oa as we keep @ping we have to look at a
totally different climate, The size of the program is
getting so large, and Eras h n so large, that it undoubtedly Is going to stay in one o r more of the major
aerospace hndr,, A him@ campany by no means can
have the aversity d s2rfIl, the facilities available,
mag
�)FAfjg %rtl&,
T b ~h~"t
e s d o r f t y g r M m . Thew
dqgy pmblernr. Ve feel that we are
ws oar a r ~ n p o a t m . &me
a p f 3 r ~ r n ham! slat we s d up #3awaald & a i W
proprtms *erethe men a r e e p M back Wougb the
r w typed actieky @my had engageDd informerly on
perkodb cycling ero &at they again do
lose this
+t
M, By the & a m token, we have to be
sure W ImUititw which %be~ie
pwp1a need a r e not
2sU-d eb, m
L o f u s e , to
that poi& Wt
boornesl a
pr&lgm. Ba a pmbbm wiU edst fos which we must
find at B & ~ ~ R I . H&mely, haw t o keep car Pgciiftg up
h3 t,dorb, a d h f b XQZU%iq we wieh, k b pe0ge
cotlstmtly trained for %time when we may suddenly
wed them a@ we xmve fro@6neg k s e d the program
to &wmtkw, fa theiee are- we b w e are going ts
be d i m s s b g with oar labar unims, j& hmw rimy
we da thL witkt sr nsiflimm imgaat on our bargdniag
oa@biIities.
wb*
area, end I speak from ab&t
Za W
twelve y&w% Bb &oZIDry m n ~ upemtion
r
in our
co-ny,
I asm tall y a that a&ag ever motivated
the job a mwh as yoursglf vihm goa walk out there
a d miBc with tc6e people. We can put out all the
poskw, you can hatre all the btermittmt visit@, YOU
can have all the press releaeas within the company
paper
you wmt, but my own *&ion is that the
meat, which r e p ~ & sthwe of as sitting
right here, m we go through the shop, will have to
g& o5P the:the: ~ & ~ a t ros&a
ic
and go out whslre the hardw w Is, and W k with the people, and ga wt there s o
freqwfl.&3pWt W y @tto eort of e@bg
you, and
it% not a &mat big surprise o r soA of oz p r a d e when
JQU W r e g r e ~ t l yg~
the shop. I have found
t b t the cr&@?asnpsrtimkrly, is just cp&olukly in
lave with t&iq yau Bis job. H e r l tellyou, he'll stop
with yau m d speak t o you about his job, haw mueh he
enjoys M a g it, aracl w b t new he founrl out to do well
if you give him one halS a c ~ e And
. %be only -my
youtli ever get tbt L by the top mamagemeat circukt.& tha&ghthe shop on a complete mrtn-*man
l~wi0,
BO that the sthop people feel com@letelyf m e to
tsUct.0 you at all times.
wt
Aa an e m m p g of wfia may happa if you don't conahme Ws, &rimg 8 four year period from '64 through
'68 at M G - ~ I%4g1bts, we lawched 525 SnT'.la a d
four Delta rnisstles wfthmt a failure. Itla bard to
belime after thett tW the design wasn't good, It's
hard Q believe that the s t s l t i ~ t i cwortnnamhig
~l
wasn't
good, but shxte May of '68we've had several hilurss.
$&oh tftm w e t w femfced into t b s e failures we hawe
found
t b j haw h e n brsatgll about by a multiple
ia-line pe11~aslWlum. % m n e did something wrong,
a d the fal'tsaor thattaras supposed to find it, clidn't find
it, a d &is pa%lou&srlyi~ tlw %ing khat we have to
mteb. Ycru have to get rid d $BYI feeling that anythingnast just t5u-tomatidly eyaranteeta the next shot.
Sbtis.tl&g it's lurt good enough. You have to have
each el%& &andiw @tilts own. We bvepostera. How
lmgdoes ct man l w k &ta pstm bfLforehe walks by it
dtgid it laa fmger &BC&
him P How many visila a r e
there w b s e the man is w b l a through the plmt
rapidly b a u m it's d o m to lunch, or it's about
time f a r him to catah atn airplane, a0 all the man in
slop sew is two efm whisking thw&tha shop,
pz"&&I.y if you we= out there, you'd hear him say
ta the q X t w e , Yl wonder what that group's doing?"
Now you've w a l W through, you've thought you've
motivated them, and you probably didnFt. You put
more questions in their minds than you put answers.
You have to ~ p thedtime in tbe shop, in the lab, on
the drafting board-everywhere the people a r e individually working. All I can say is that having done
tbiws like thast, this is the moat rewarding part of
the whole j ~ b . You get to tow the people. Surprisingly enough occasionally they'll do exactly a s you
say, mther than what they had wanted to do and make
you feel lib you helped them, and theae a r e the ones
that h i l d this company and in-plant morale.
We look over our total engineering design areas.
~ltVht
were the thing8 h t we could do better?" But
we then stopped to ask, "What. a r e the things about
the design we have right now that while they work,
do have poseibilities of not working?" And without
having to define what it is, i s going to make it work,
assume certain failures, and then what is your recovery capability. So we ham done this time after
time, and m sc o n t ~ u obasis
~ s now have a group which
r e v i e w the design work done, withthe specific charge
that they - deliberately insert mental failtlre into the
design without regard to why they fail, but just assume
they fail, and then determine w b t is the way you can
overcome anythl.ng cata&rophic happening after that.
Sometimes it's mdwdmcy, sometimes it is just a
different wproach to design rather than that. Where
the lack of statistics hurts, is .hat even if we get by
a flight, we very seldom really know how close we
were to the edge with many things. Almost no flight
ie nomisYal from the point of view of the setup of
physical conditions. You either &nTt have exactly
the t e m p a r b r e you have designed it for, or you
don't be axsdly the wiad shear, o r you don't h a m
waetly tbe glitch. Everything; is just a little different
on every individual flight, and therefore, you cannot
be sure that many place^ on the vehicle weren't just
about ready to hsve a problem. Of course, the more
flights you get, the more you feel you can average
t b w out, but we feel that the manned phase must
have many flighb in it in order to wipe out these
aseas where the facts of life a r e somewhat different
from the fmte that are put down on the engineering
design, and it's with this particularthing that wefeel
we have to show the people in our country that we a r e
really bearing downon how to do this job economically,
s o that we'll get their support for an on-going , more
�rapid, and very a & w t k & s p g r r w m . Witlrott
t h i ~ without
,
the hdp ' f ~ e m
-the & b r pwple, a d the
r e d attention of t
b p@
an the @~Unel,we just
aren't going to be &h b enjoy the 1wr.y of P few
flights per ye-.
Wetre g&ng ta have t;g get a lat of
repetition in o r k r C have a truly vduable propcm.
lMJr time is ja& about w, but I \zaonld like ts make C%W
other comment here. Wehve a$sigwd otne program
manager for A p h , I3d Battar, who Zs 8 i W q in t$e
auaeace here this &moon, and he b e n on the
actual role of 8~~tunwng
in d e w every s i d e piwe
of hardware that entsrs into'sur 8-WB again, with a
review af the M8t;ory every p i e bas had, the rwords of its problems in and oElt of wcepbmee, itr rwd
out of mamfwture, eo t h a we can see whether o r nut
with each prolonged s k m g e period, we have to do
~omethiqgm o thanwe
~
bad thaaght about doingwhen
designed tbse p& to again g u m & the
ab$~auteintegrity of thenz in future servics, So we
a w eonrmitted to applying our top personnel to this
m m t a c y of w&hing, this dedication of being in the
p%qram. We fael &at we have many problems ahead
of us in a z motivation
~
activity to lookat. Primarily,
net what we need tQ do it, but better ways of getting
i$done.
we first
I would say in clusingthat their reward is going to be
very great. In the BbbIe Pa Xst Corinthiirns, there's
a very excellent W e comment about what the reward
is. It sayer "neither eyes have seen, nor ear hath
heard, the great w o n k s W the h r d h a s to show
to those
believe," a& we believe in the space
program at M~cDcrmell-J30uglw. Thank you.
�President
North American Rockwell
h o d afternoon, Mee and gentJemran. Thla is a
p a r t i d a r l y vital time far a meeting such a s this.
We have a l l been complimenting o w e l v e ~during
t
b past few m t h a , And we all know that we did a
wonderful job on getting thaw fellows to the moon
a d , pwAic3darly, getting them bask. I am not sure
a
t we fully wckrstmtnd why we were &la to do it,
b m u s e we tend to be e n g b e r ~ rud
, look at things
from a techniea.1 point of view, an8 make a lot of
other ~ s w m p t i m . % pwple wbo ~ w l l yput the
men on ths moonandgotthenn back, happen to be the
peagle of the U n M Stabs who put up the money,
And we d
y were tools in tbir b u d . The most
imporhat thing I think we must remember for the
future i s Wt W Is our role.
And I don%t m h w y w put a clolkr value oa it,
but it b there. So where do we go from here?
It is obvviowi h t one of the nice things abut the
lunar program b that it can be eaaily understood.
You can get it in ysur mind. You can easily M i n e
it, and it ia what yon lalght call a single paint god.
However, me d the things we w e a little bit a t fault
for, Is t k t we really didn't do are much homework as
we h l d havebefore we got tothe mom. Ewrybody
s8y8, l1I'tn@IOg tO get thQge men to the moon. Then
I am ping to get the hell out of this program. " So
this b r oaused a little blur, h a u s e he had to pick
up some speed in determining what we a r e going to
do next.
But here w i n , it i s fortunate because just withinthe
I don% 'think anykdp ever had a better break than
Presideat Nixam, when he took off on his trip around
the mrTrt immediately after Apollo 11. Bscause no
mattier where hf? went, the main thim in peoples'
minds around the world was, this is not President
Ntxon of the United f3tat.a. This is President Nixon
d tihat country that put the fellows oa the mom1
last week, the Space Task Group submitted a report
to the Pretsldmt. I bappened to be talking to Tom
Paiae laat Fri&y, cmd I a i d , "Tom, is there going
to be any specific announcement by the President on
We a r e often asked what a r e the great fallouts of the
space program? On this subject, I think we strain
too hard to name some specific piece of hardware
which i s in being. In my opinion, the bardware hllauk in the space program a r e really not going to be
known until many glegrs from now. I knew tbey are
there. Bat I would be very mush surprised that
anything I wrote down taday, turned out to be the
impartant things in the future,
And what does the Bible say? You know a s well a s I
do. It says that there is a continuing space program.
There are several options available, as we all know.
And, incidentally, I hope that we can get away from
this distinction between manned and unmanned spaceflight, because I don't think it is really a meaningful
division at all. But, we know we a r e going to have a
very healthy program on earth resources. We know
we a r e going to have a space station. And we know
we're going to have a space shuttle. You fellow8
have been struggling with those things much more
than myself. I know you have differences of opinion.
I am not going to t r y and design the thing here this
Probably, no single event in ~e history of the world
has raised the prestige of any country such ars the
ApoUo Program has. Well, this is a real fallout.
tbis thing?" He said, "There doesn't have to be.
There it irc-them's the Bible."
�try get a e b c e to pat arr oar &, so 1 m&W m k e a
couple of comme&-a.
Let's take the a w e &&
WJ
-m
I@
example,
, (What
I say can apply to @e sthem jt& a# well.) We have
our goal. Let's a h sum we dl understand w h 5
that g d is. As 1 K ~ ~ B T B - ~ 5% OU~Pgoal is b make
it possible to re-fly W reunse @%s'pace
vehloles, &iia
transport6Ltbn v&cles, in a way tibat will -give us
good txonomfa r&m a& our aB0rt.s and our investment. In tbia r e s p e d theP, a@ it fans out, we dl
have our ideas,
m y b e some we pretty impWta~t
on what it ought to be. Bo we h d to start designing
by committee. And, I - k v e heard much raving and
rattling about what t
h CPDB wmge should be, and
what the p a y l d should be ? I'll say this, "1 don't
know what they should be. 'I I do say tbat if we try to
make everybody happy, 4 eet down requirements
that just arenY do-able, we a r e going to end up with
another bust. So, let's make sure we know what the
requirements are. What the important ones are aad
then go
on t h t basis.
Here again we as etlgontaers, don't fully appreciate
the points of view of some very i~ry,oTtant people,
like the taxpayers and Catrgress. A d , I think we
must face the fact that a very import-aat item in the
final gpecifiaatfon, which we are going to end up with,
has to be btased u p the remaroes available, I am
counting a s r a o u r c e s the people, which, a s you dl
h o w , we have plenty 'of. We donLt have much time.
We never will And, of ootrpse, we newer h v e e n o w
money, So I tl&
t&e prqgmrn should be p b s e d on
*Cis
gaing to
the realistic appraisal d the -ding
be made avaiktble. And if we s h t , if we put OW
sightstoo high, ~w~
jtx~tne'taerget there, a r people
wffl get tired of waiting for as lh get there. The other
thing to do, W M Bis
~ probably worse, is to set our
requirements aaB our go& &Q l h , in which case,
technology will oomds mrine; by us and we wlll have
another program go. down the drain, as we have had
so many other8 in the p w t
.
Getting b c k to tbis reqtzkrernenh business-I dm%
know whether or not space i s going to turn out to be
like some of o m experletwe in aircraft, a@ Walter
was talking about. I have b m h very few airplanes
that ever ended up by beingused for the requirements
that were drawn gp to justk€y Wt airplase. Here we
a r e a t a situation today with a 3352 being used for
low-level bombing. I b o w that any airplane that
started out with a low-level bombing requirement
never got off tbe ground. And, a s a matter of fact,
we don't have ane today. But that is t$e way these
things turn out. I think this is the way we have to
view these thing& ve 1re tall&= a b u t . They are
good jobs, The teobqologyr is right. They are going
to turn out to be a W a y program.
Walter touclzed an this baaiwss which is the whole
the&e of this meettug, motivation. Personally, I
would like to say h t I hear the word motivation md
apathy kind of used crossway, I would like to make
it r e d clear that in my opinion, I know of no szpathy
and I know of no people who have an apathetic attitude
toward €I& pzwgmm e m t ~ ~ t st .u m .$BeCOB=
krtrary. -%Fktay m me hykag Dff at t b zaze we +me.all
h$isgoff, %hem
IB *%?&&a mwfm&-&*
Ikwk
T b m az% mvma3 wry -fuuadamM thM@ paWm1&y, in t & basinem.
~
Number me, we have to
have a c~nUnllousc h d l e q e . We Bave %p+
to put up
somet&ing &tat is redly hard for p@opXar-Q meet.
This aaukf be a combimtiom d tdmt& t&n$sl,
s&eMed W w , and do&r things. Awl, iacldsnm y , I tSlinlr all t m maag times, we try ab s e p a Q
these three eblngs
UWla Independent ntmpartmarats. We will b y e a meet- me
on S;C-.
A M %eaest &$ we will have a me&&@on aost And
ths O W day, we w1SL havmnotber m&zqgon pric f ng
Aadym wwld think there nuere three entirely different
t b g s we are talking about.
.
.
In additiorx, a chaUemgt3 o r a goal ff you will, really
8.rrsnt+do a$,ytBsng:, o r m an mything, unless we
have specific ways of mea urina; that, a d have a
feedback. Then you b v e tolet the fellow know exactly
h.ow he was doing; o r the group on how it was doing.
In that r e e e c t , too many times I see us trying to
buokshot a whole area. We do it to ourselves. You,
our customer, will do it to us. You will send a million
people into the plant, and just Mud a;f look the whole
thing over. We come up with Wngs like reports on
subjects which were never a problem to begin with.
I think the m y we ought to h d l e these things is that
you fellows ought to be sufficiently on top of us and
when we do have a p a k spot, come in and help us,
whether we need it or not. But don't try and say,
'WeU, we've going to take a look at Company X today.
We a r e going to get a hundred people and look at
everything. l t
i
I think one of the biggest things that we do, and can
do an a daily basis, is the sort of thing that is called
for in this program and tbert we a r e kind of weak on.
It is in the general mea of what I call "discipline. "
I am not talking necessarily about military discipline.
If you show me a dirty shop, I will show you dirty
workmanship! If you show me an engineering office
where people come running in and out all hours of the
morning and day, I will show you a rather haphazard
engineering job1 There a r e so many of these things.
I know I have arguments with my people on little
things like an expewe account. They will be six
weeks in getting an expense account in. Now, you
start climbing over their backs, and the attitude
becomes, Wee w h . What difference does it make.
I am a really important guy and I am really doing my
job. And someday I will get it in. And don't worry
about it. " You will find out that the guy who is slack
in his expense account, probably didn't get much out
of that trip. SOit is this type of discipline I'm talking
about. You can get people used to doing things a certain way, so that doing them right becomes automatic.
�of tbts m w and I thlnhE we all are.
I am in the
For sample, w i ~ ~ g aorzad
h g mr oqganimtioaI always get a sort d
out of this-becan@ the
~o do is coma up with lW
first thing e v e r y b o d y m t
on a ch%. rtnd they argm whether the liaes are to
be s o i d lines oy d&hd Urns. Inthevery best organizations I Wise seen, no one eves had to refer to an
or$anizp~ti&nehrnrt beewee the people were worktug
s o 'WBB
together #at they automatically hew where
tBe reepcmibiU6les were, and who was r e ~ p a ~ s & l e
f a r wliert. And they get that way not because somebody
drew lsncwgankzation chart. They got that way beeause
peaple had b m n pmt4ciag t o make it work. Encidentally, I mfght say on the s u b j d u f o ~ a i z a t i o a e ~
I always look aX them a sort of like a bikinl, What
they reveal is very inter&ing, What they hide is
vital 1 You can rrpsnd a seminar on tbis one stbject
alone.
I think the b y to the whole thing 15 this business of
our emmranictttions with our people. When I first
went ta North American I was surprised, to put it
mildly ,to OMtW our so-called motivation prcgram
a d d
(and incidentally, it took me about two
M o m I could find somebodywho could tell me
w W PRlf)E me@&) w m mderthe aegis of our public
relations paaple. The pMlosclphy of the thing eeemed
to &? t h t every timeaomebody msde a mistake in the
shop, yougo tothe PRpeople andtell them about it, and
they put gUt anew poster onthe thing. T h e p t e r s
a r e effeutim for the first dray they are up, maybe.
But motivation takes a whole lot d differen* things.
One of the biggest motivation faators I kaow of was
when b a e fellows were building a spaoecraft, and
the tustmna& would get to h a w them. These fellows
h e w that tiwy were respmfble for their lives. You
coakb't ptaay better motivation^ that Recantly ,
b u s e
mews got busy in some simulator work,
we rrothdafall fnEl in the rated the v i s i t a d the
m t r a ~ t u bo w i n g ont there, And all over the place
ever*
asked, ltEey, how come we don't see Joe
Blinks aaymore ln O r , "re've
you been?" Thie
is a p 8 ~ u l i atool,
r
coming from this kind of a program,
bug it really works.
hother aside on this I mi#t mention is oazr methods
of written c e & m . I reoognize thst records
are aboleftdy necessary. There is nothing better
&an a gosd mafigumtisn coatpol and procws spec,
rtlzd
that eort d Wng. But I'm referring now to
tlre type d oommunicstions where we a r e attemptto $& management &atLon. All 200 many times I
see a guywb couE.dpmb&bly walk a c r w the corridor
avlld
ia a fellow, but be doesn't. He sib down
writ& lzim a mernoradus2. And y w bow, a
r n e z n o m is never read in the frame of mind in
which it is mitten. I% ia probably one of the Iousieat
ways b eomnaWale wit& people that I can possibly
tbi* of. M y main imprwsfcm of memos is that when
you first go into a company as a yowrg engineer, you
w r i h the rough draft on yellow paper for your boss.
F i d y when you get promoted, you get to the point
where you can sign it. Then tihe great day comes
when somebody e b e signs it and you approvk it. You
have really reached the peak when you have somebody
sign it for you, and you didn't emu have to read it! I
say you can g~ on with taege thing8 all the time.
But the mast important thing-Walter
lhentioned it,
axrd I 'm going to repeat it, beeawe my own experience
follows his exactly-is that you have got to go and
see the people. Tbey should wt be s h k e d when
they
see you. Let them talk to you about their Jobs.
~
I remember we were running seven days, three shifts.
The talk waa thkt the third shift was always the most
ineffiaient and, we ought to put better people on the
third shift, because aU the good people were on the
first shilFt, a d the mediums on the second shift. But
it wasn't so. It waann'tso at all. The people on the
third ~hviftwere fully as good as any on the first rshift.
But what happened is that all the bosses, and a l l the
actionwas going onduring the day time. And a t night
nobody was there. T b r e was a kindof W h o cares 3"
attitude. For a while there I was just living in the
plant. The first readion was one of almost shock.
The s e c d reaction was ''What the hell is he looking
for?". Finally they got to know that I m t t going to
bite &em and I was really intereeted in what they
were doing. It was amazing. And then should something happea-1 would take a trip a d I would be gone
for two or three days. As soon as I would get back
everybody would wont to know where I I d been. It
is just not the head man of the division being there,
o r anything lib that. Everybody ought to do it. I
found &at supervision in general, spends too damn
much time in their office. And that is why once I got
red Mld aad took everybody's osice away from
them. But it didn't last long.
I'd like to conclude by say& that the most important
specffic examplee in motivation that I h o w of are:
(1) Letts have a good pmgram. And I think we have
the mrrkings of a good program. But let's know what
these goah are, and let's stick to them. Really, this
is a job for trs on the top. (2) Letts do a real good
job this time in coordinating the performance which
we want to try and get; the schedules which we want
to try and meet; and the amount of funds we have to
spend, so that they all Ue together and form some
semblance of a sucoessful program. My own feeling
i s that as f a r as the people themselves are concerned,
we have confidence to burn. Our job is to motivate
t h a e people todo it, by getting a good program. To
tell the truth, I think that we have grown so much,
that a little of tbis hard trimming might be pretty
goad medicine. I Wnk we are going to end up by being
a stranger md a more productive industry as a result
of it. Thank you very much.
�HAROLD J. McCLELLAN
General Manager
Southeast Division, Aerospace Division
The Boeing Company
viduda, are spending some d Wir time worrying
&out future security while trying; to do the job they
hme to do taday ,
Tadw 1 mujd tke to give you my view8 hl some d
the p01ffimm$ihablthat f &Mn, mbeiqytaklea ta provide~&e m ~ &m@anb@d
&
im-ce
to NASA i n the
ma* fLtLd yeam +$CE in as spoe proerram, with
psUI;i&
empha~ison- role thafm a r i m a t a d
&magem&at1p urn of the mattn4;1ag+ p r a g r m s have
fnblptng baa eha 6;6vem@-enf,and industry obtainthe
go&@ $% t
b @@re.
BUt I thhk b~
d m the employment numberswhich all of us are really doing today-in an orderly,
selective fashim
in a decisive, straightforward,
compssian&te m m e r , much of his Iraaertsinty can
be elimiaata8. We ctua reduce the impact of this impediment ta moffvatioh. I W, perhaps, the most
fimdwmnu poht is qrtick, straightforward, deeisive
wtIOE1 with 8 s b r e attemp$ on the Ijart of a l l of u s
to let eaeh employee, whv might be involved, know
where he stands.
W e hime &m.ltrrprseedd
&I
& i ~ gof swcemes on
W ~ ~ o $ % ~ g r a m - A p o U4o through $1. Our initial
$@I
on'the mi3an a d returnhg
#am
tioaed wiSh new perfeation. Naw, the frequency of
theb Iaaikhm has bea r~~ch&uP~-stretehed
outand.attdia~ta
Jpeapk are be- talt~noff the pragram
at: mmy ef the locations ~ m g b mthe
t country.
If we in industry let NASA d m on any of the rem a w Bp0Jf.o miwitma-wd I epe~akd failures of
my ccxse~blmce-we will have set back the agency's
c b w e fez firtare programs, And in tthe eyes of the
public md our work forcewe wiIi have started a whole
new round of mcertainf.be and future insecurities.
The -we
af ~
mom
imm
bWt
B%B &Idly pmbbly .$ding with hem is
. u P I ~ . lib&
o ~ . ~f a@--prchhlyin itldwtry
I thbk there
to awry this
~;aUms--&
o i ~ i v eaction
pmuide gmxl i d o r r ~ l a t i ot?~ peaph
with re.ecjpwk to their fdtum fn .the space program.
m m & - s h w k d r ~ r n b d ourselve@Bak
f&'peredIy re- wi&dsiagthe
ma&& parfxmt job o.n W b ~ tW
k each
be amzomplished in a timely ancl coat manner.
'EBe m w e *.19dh@ng fuWe rtssigmnentss will re&
fmp~the pd4eyt p e ~ o r m m ~and
e 1%5 effort that is
put in m todayTI )@b.
Now, during tSPio 5).rtm@trwilto??y period, one of the
fmdamenWe that we mas%carefully guard against is
the lack of %tte!ltionto crertification of employees for
eacb job. During times like these, companies and
Ore;mh&~nswithin compmies have to do a oertain
e~~mm
d tr w f ~ i s a t i s nshnd rw~eignmeatcto fill the
WQT~~Z&I&&&!ram,. n&maUy, will i
l
l
.
mat
gaps where people have departed. I &Ink it is incumW&I ably:
out. &*
rnomkg. I $tress we cmld
axp6~e2-.inam d Ulem ta oce;w-and IS& b~ ~ ~ g h t - bent u p ewb gen;Ue3nanin this room, who has anyhe has an airtight,
thiw to do Pvl* it, to h e
*enin&-dat
~ ~ x g g m " l a t ~or
om
groups of ins-
37
�ironclad system for insuring that the worker is certified, trained and put through the sort of scrimmage
sessions that Lee James and Rocco Petfone were
talking about this morning. That makes you darn
sure that he is ready for the ball game.
A month before Apollo 11, I wrote a letter to all of
our first line supervisors who are involved in our
space activities, saying that the chdenge we face
for perfect performance-now that the Apollo Program
is beginning the operational. --is
a s great or
greater than the challenge of designhg and building
the equipment in the first plaee. I still believe it
today. At that time I c d b d on emfi supervisor in
our organization to aatiefy himself that each of his
employees knew his job, and h e w it instinctively. I
have insisted on a rigorouaprogram of checking up on
this to satisfy myself that it is done.
Two weeks ago, I took one of those factory walkthroughs that Bill Bergen was talking about, and I
talked to many of the employees at Michoud working
on the first stage. I can assure you that that experience was most rewarding to me personally. Each of
the employees that talked to me had the urge to tell
about what he was doing and how difficult it was to
really train and get ready for his job. He was proud
of his certification for being able to do it. He was
even proud that there was an inspector making sure
that he was doing his work right.
I know that we have isolated incidents, but I don't
think we have a general letdown in morale within the
sphere of workers that I talked to, But I think that
we in all levels of management awe the employees
frequent and proper communications about the right
things. And I think if there is one message I would
like the seminar on motivation to carry back-and
perhaps to deal with more tomorrow-it is the question of applying o w motivational techniques-ad the
extra dimension of comanunication that these Drograms
give us-to the various levels of management.
-
It seems that when I hear about motivation, I usually
hear about the fallow that's welding, or about the one
that's inspecting, o r doing this or that. I, for one,
would like to make s u m that we w e using this tool to
carry the message through dl the ranks of management as well.
Now, I think there's another pitfall. Although I won't
dwell on it, I would like to mention it in passing because of the t i e of this seminar and some of the
discussion that has preceded. There is a pitfall into
which industry must not fall in the days ahead. It is
one of diluting our skills, o r shifting too much of our
management attention and emphasis on future NASA
programs. I certainly believe that industmy has the
clear obligation of helping NASA, through 'studies and
their own in-house work, to determine the proper
steps for implementing the new programs we have
heard about today. However, 1%
think this support to
the space agency must and should somehow be clearly
separated from the ball team that we are putting
through scrimmage every week to play that next ball
game that is coming up Saturday. I recognize there's
some level within a company where this all comes
together, but I w ~ d dcertaialx urge that we guard
against dmpp&g it tw low,
There is aii a q w t about management and motivation
that 1 call a flmanager working his feedba~kloop. I
would like to talk abmt it for a moment. First, let
u@ recornbe and take note again, that we have had
eight straight successes on Apollo-six manned successes. Now, why ? What k s made this possible ?
Well, I happea to think it is because of the NASA/
industry team af Bia;By motivated people that have
been warking om the propam, in addition to the other
things &at have been mentioned.
I think &is team is typified by some of the people we
have heard today-Lee James, Rocco Petrone, and
George h e , if he were here. And I could name
many, many more. You gentlemen have heard two of
them speak. Aad thi5 &am is typified by men who
pay great attention to detail. They really know the
people and the hardware. They energetically investigate the symptoms of potential problems every bit a s
hard, if not harder, than they do the real problems
until they ape thoroughly understood and the answer
is very clear and completely out of the nag list in
their minds.
The paper work system, sure, follows up and tells
us this is dl cleaned out. But in the time we have
ahead of us, that attention to detail is going to be even
more important-if that can be true-than it was for
the last few flights. I think you owe it to each manager, who is working in your spheres of activity, to
point out to him that the really good manager is the
one that has himself set up with a good feedback loop
of information. It comes not just from paperwork o r
staff meetings, but from his people. Ensure he i s
energetically using this technique with a real short
timeline and thqt he is taking the corrective action
withinhis sphere of ability to do it. When done properly he will be able to sense problems which are
developing before they become panics.
I think thir is probably the most importantpart of our
lnscnzrgement challenge today. I would hope that somehow we can utilize the extra tools of our motivational
programs to establish this in a more effective manner
at all levels in the Apollo Program. If we have-and
please don't misunderstand me, I think in the large
part we do have, but I think there is also room for
improvement-each managsr on the Apo110 Program
inindustryworkhg in this mode, he will be so excited
and &dlenged and motivated that he won't have five
minutes to worry about being;insecure about the future.
This brings me to the subject of motivation which I
want to cover. I think when worked right, this attention to the feedback loop of information and the f ollowup on it, can be one of our most powerful motivation
tools. It should be used even more than it is today.
The reason I believe it is because inherent in this
mode of operation-this face-to-face communication,
beginning at the lowest level and exteading through all
�s u c w 8 ~ i v eietwb wf the orgaz&ation--is tbe everlW& MI1 tQ ktwp et it until that p a r t i d a r symptom
or problem is clearly d d t with i n a manner that
eveqWc3y @an tinderstand.
I t h W aur m O t i v & i d projgrms, for 7Khich most
compmi8.s have different names undsr the Manned
Right A e e n e s banner,
~
&rea very, very important
part of t&$s whole prc3cegs. I will confess to feeling
the way
dames ekpmsse8 it &is mornjag-kind
of h@&uGat f&&. And f Itnew tnang. other managera
throu&W our 0 m b W o n -re
~ i ~ Timy
t ,
tiw@@t, '%%dl,what. am Wse m ~ olsprograms (of
&id%they sea ouW& signs in the way of posters)
maUg do?" I OW it h e besa g m e n to my satis;
f"&%oittkfittwh&.Yt r e d l y does 1s provide some extra
a v a e r s of communfcati~n0x1a subject that one Mivfdud, ar m e group of fndividuals, is trying to get
aorms
.
When we recqptze that each bum= being r e d l y only
hears &at part which he wants to hem, and each will
hear a t m e thing in different ways, and some
lmmm beiqg5 will respond to one method ofpresentatian while &&hers
will be totally a e s t i v e , then I think
tb ~&&WLadpr-arn wtll give us that &led flexibili*. lf us& bg ~rmmgersproperly, it amplifies
th&r &iIEty hcs@ma&at%with the people with wwhom
they d d . I would like to suggest that. we attempt to
iapmvie the Wlization of o m motivation program in
just tbat xnammr.
Qne d &e programs we have at B a g that has
very mccessfuJ i&
the 3-ma.r Roll of %onor. We select
d e ; s a m e m p b p s and havg their name and contribution to theApolloPwgx'am rsoarded in abook 'I'his
book, whish e o n b M papar &dgrzed tolast 1000years,
wfll ba nr&ntained for posterity in the Smithmnian
W i t u t i o n and Library of C m ~ e s s , Further, each
honored employee receives an engraved doubloon a s
d d e a c e &!at his name is being placed on the Lunar
Roll d Honor.
.
has r a a ~ h e dsome people in a very deep and
fmad%tmmWway. We had one gentleman f happen to
knm of who falt SD strongly about it that he has made
provi~ioaein his will for the line of succession of
thaw emdentials to his heirs. But I am sure-and I
b&g
this up only to illustrate-that we have some
e m p 1 a y e ~that could probably c a m less about it. It
jwt & w 4 5 matifate them a s numb, or give them a s
muob of a p ~ e t 3 v ereaction ~s others.
Them are obbm thiag;s that r e w h those employees.
D i m t coatact wlEh the astrmauts, a s wm stated
earlier, i s a certainly me of the most powerful motiv a t i d took we have faund. I think this clearly
tndicates the type of motivation that we a r e talking
a b u t is this human-being-to-hum=-being
relationship, where the person can really identify with another
indiviw.
Lastly, crtl the subject of moth-ation, I firmly believe
tb$t our nmtivsltional programs sometimes overlook
the c20-itive
nature af most individuals. I #.ink
&is is lme in the shops, as weU a s other places. I
think eachpersm, with very few exceptions-and these
emeptims are usually weeded out pretty rapidlyreally wants to do a goad job. Re wants his co-workers
ta b o w 'thd b . i s do* a good job. Of course, he
wants hi$ boss to know it. I think taking advantage of
this f w e t d human nature in a positive and proper
way can be a most powerful tool.
I had apersonal experience inthe early days of welding
on the S-rC krulkhead at Michoud. I found, much to my
surprise, that the information1 was looking for-which
wwfd tall u s how bad ~~a r e d l y were-was in our
record sy$tttgm. But it was buried sa deep that it took
something like s$x to eight hours for somebody to dig
it out, summarize it, and get it to me. It suddenly
occurred to me that I really wasntt the one that needed
it, because I hadn't done any welding since I was in
high rschaal. The individuals who really needed to
see that data were the ones actually doing the welding.
Well, we had quite a psychological seance on the pros
and consof that me. We ended up having it introduced
by the first level supervisor, explaining the purpose
to his e m s in a positive way. We also posted the
data, After every shift the data was updated. And to
the surprise of mmy, we fouhd that here was the one
mostpowerful drives for keeping the defect rate down
on those welds. Once in a while a defeot rate would
start up. Aboutall it took was the posting of the day's
data and it would start back down again. Maybe we
were lucky. 'But it is one example out of my experienee that says tbat if you can, in a positive manner,
appeal to the competitive nature of the people you
might r e d l y have a powerful tool.
What is my message on motivation 7 First, I think it
is different far every human being, But I think that
it has something in common. 1 think basically it boils
down to saying that I want to know somebody cares.
You want to know somebody cares. A worker wants
to know that someme cares. The ability of various
people to show that they do care b u t his work and
what he's doing can be brought to bear with good
management plus the use of the motivational tools
that have been developed. However, the communications process needs the advantage of feedback I urge
each of you to take back the message that management,
on all levels, must be much more active in this area
than I think we have been.
.
W e should remember that the future starts now-this
minute. What was said a minute ago i s in the past.
And every day the future starts anew. The next big
event in the future for most of us in the room-and
the people you are goiag to talk to when you leave this
room-is Apollo 12. Pete Conrad, Dick Gordon,
Allen Bean, and all of the flight crews on subsequent
flights must be made to feel that the team represented
by us today, a s well a s the people who work with us,
view a i r missions with the same single-minded
purposefulness for perfectirrn that has typified the
Apolla mission successes to date. Let us make sure
G t w e carry this message, and other messages from
this seminar, back to each member of our respective
work forces, both managers and employees alike.
.
�PANEL DISCUSSION
QUESTION:
Will the various centers cmtinue to provide p~~jltea-s
and motivational xlaaterisls to the contractor?
to get themselves all on board is a very good thing
bsy&m right now. And certainlywe are mainfor t
taining mtcnqp~ltentcontact by g&ting everybody reorie~tecfto something on the new team, even though
they have all betin a part of it, one place o r another
bdore.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
I will field that one myself- The answer t o w is yes.
QUESTION:
We have a question hem for me. Are any funds available for maintenance of facilities d training for contrmtors who a r e essentially all done ?
MR. SCHNEIDER:
In the AA9 funded a m , if you mem someom like
C h q s l e r , for example, w r h we have the launch
vehicles in stbpagg, we are marfatrr,inftyz: a crqwbility
a t t h w e c o a b t a r r a so that eve can rmotivate thje
launch vehicles. Wit&mspect to supporthg s u b tractors and s u p p ~ r &r
s
all of their equipment is
delivered, that decision will be made on a piece-bypieee brawls. We will examine whether o r not it i$
required, and take the appropriate action.
QUESTION:
Next question is for Lee James. It is from Mr.
Trainer of DCASR. How do you maintain top management active support?
QUESTION:
Now the next question is addressed to Walter Burke,
and I thinfr it is a particularly good one. It says, "How
do you motivate the people building commercial jets ?I1
MR. BURKE:
I guess it is the very same way that we do on W s
particular program. To me the thing that gets the
best work out of the ~ e o a l eb to diamss with them
my problem, and ask ihe?;lh<rw do they think they a n
help. The hardest part for me is to keep my mouth
shut, while I let them tell me. If you can do #we
two, you get the people that are going to be on the job
era interested in contributing that the word motivation
just tells what t h y m e doing, rather than mything
you Instill into them. And csmmsrcid j e k are one
of the greatest pieces of engineering that has come
d m the road for a long wMle. Nothing is more
beautiful than a M=-8 (and I hope a lot of DC-10s).
They'll motivate anybody.
QUESTION:
The next is amotivation question, and it is addressed
to Dave Law. It says, "Can we use visits to the
Mission Control Center as an inaentive award in the
same way aril we would use vlsitrs to the Cape?"
MR. JAMES:
I really think Bill Bergen, Burke, and some of those
people answered that question for me. Certainly a
lot of this is direct communicatioa, and communications is one of the toughest problemrs we have. I feel
we in NASA a r e working a whole new chain now. And
that chain is getting educated; is getting around a
great deal. For instance, I have changed jobs, and
I have a new deputy. The Saturn boss is now Roy
Guthrey , who is here. And they are now going throqgh
a cycle of getting ready for the next launch, 507. My
deputy (who is new to the program) has been on the
West Coast with Roy all week. And Roy himself with
his new deputy, Dtck Smith, have been on the West
Coast all week going through the flight readiness review cycle to h e sure that all of the things we have
been talking about today a r e not going to happen on
this next launch. The newness of them in thme jobs,
and the attentionto detail that they are having to give
MR. LANG:
Bill, I am sure that such a motivation device could
be arranged. There are regular tours out here at
the center that a r e fairly public in which some of the
facilities are available, like the simulation facilities
in the mission control center. But I am sure you
mean during ttn actual mission, and I think with a
little preplanning that could be arranged.
QUESTION:
Next question is addressed to Hal McClellan and it
says, llRemembering the old adage 'Once burned,
twice shy', do you think the new employees expected
in the space program in 1971 and 1972 will be as
motivatible as the old team?"
�MR, McCLELLAN:
planning an 21. clays out of the pad. This ia made
pomible became we no longer have cryogenio o r
hypergolias tbat we have t~bad slshrd. So we a r e
WeU , my answer bthat irr an qualified yes. I trutnk
try& b d e ~ o u p l &e
e two systems B o ~ t e l there
y
tZrat the exietiw employees a98 the new emplqees
t h a t ~ o o m i3 ~ u r s s p a c f e p ~ ~ isf u ~ capability
~
on Pad 39, such that it ahouldnlt
taIly joiniffg; tb~&pragram for a desire ko gmtbipatg
becom rany constraint. (The mttwer to the question
in m&ttk$%d4sr
g;rekted a&veatwm. Naw I t2dt& that
is Ifnslmgpythe way I am.)
wheaithy rreaazbjeotsdtathe pmsurrsrm isnposdugaa
them by $heir wnrk&g e n v i r o m 3 , a d their naanQUESTION:
, tftrt ean pPt % e m M w into that. BWt, I
.
metiwah that underlies pny pkr?aon &at is a part of
tlw s p a e w program.
Now Bktro is aras for BiU Bergen that, gee, I could
hew .ew mymu. Wlt E gwbmb I cEldnlt, It
says, 'CL natlce yon said, 'We didn't have enoughwe m ' f k"pbenmgb money. ' A d o cost w w high.
Crra the E j U A s r o w e team redly do a program
diHehatZy po 1t c a b lws Pv
MR. BERQEN:
I didn't mean to sey we dididnlt haw emugh money. I
said, no matter what that amount of mangy was tbe
progmm ahodd be ksflard -so it ie mmpatible with
tbe f m d h g . In &her wr&, we s h d d n l t plan on
dQtaa rpemaim m y bey;~nBour new. The b b r
part ad W quwtioa is, f t Cwe
~.build t?hings for legs
m m ~ e y ?The
~ m m r is ~bviowly,"Yes, we Can.
W t now yau a& yourerelf, lfWill it b the
And this is ths question that we really cm't answer.
Are we going ts stick wit31 the philaecyshy t b t ha8 s o
f a r barn a wry good one, n philaeophy of 100 percant
sucwis8 ? i tkhk \wetregoing to have to maintain very
~trtcs
t e a in S W 8
~-s
M certificsttioa, feating, vibmtlQntesting, and yols name it. And thi~
in
my Mnitfon is mi- to cost a lot of money. It i s
debatable, for example, static testing, is one we alwi~yeQPUC about e l h n i d i n g , aud you can save a lot
of mantay. But my kstgue~f4b, though, we are not
gaiaig; to let the reliability fmtors take a secondary
priority over the cost factor.
The next one is for me, and it says, llWould you preferto ham ar r e a c t i v ~ t d
W 34 o r 37 at y m r disposal
PLP 8
d
b ~ h ~ i C0*l€S
n g
with Ap0u0 ?"
MR. KWEIDER:
Well first, I am going to lm using Complex 34 o r 37
(we haven't made that dtwision yet) for the hunch d
the m w s d vehicles wing tbe S a r a IB. A@hr as
Conqhx 39 g w , we a r e doing our bast to deM>upLe
BAB from Apollo. In that we will have r Wisated
lot d a dedicated bay in the VkB,andwe a* &w.h r h g our system such .that we can do &mo& all of
our Cape testing intside of the VAB. We are only
not nsspe the Manned F l a h t Awareness Program
to a NASA organ kdional level to include all of NASA,
unmned as wall as manned?" This is addressed to
anyone.
MR. SCHNEIDER
I will tab the l i b r t y of answering it myself. I think
it is a very goodquestion, and I understand there have
been some thoughts dong those lines. It is quite
possible that it wlll become Space Flight Awareness,
rather t b n M a n k d Space Flight Awareness sometime in the future.
The next one is addressed to George Meuller, who
likswiae ianlt here, and it says, "In the minds af the
people of the Unit04 States, the Apollo Program was
to put a man on &e mom. Do you have a catch phrase
o r brief description of the next goal?"
MR. SCHNEIDER:
I will field that one, too, and say, of course. I consider the, next goal as Apollo 12, and that is still to
land a man on the moon and come back. But ff you
mean for the long range, the way we a r e steering the
program hopefully, is to a programthat is less epectacular and more undemtandable to people. We are
looking for things like thespace statiaa and the space
shuttle. You may have heard Dr. von Braun (I understand from reading the newspaper) said, "Well, maybe
in 1976 the President of the United States will be able
to have a fireside chat." But to have a talk with the
nation from spaee. I think 1976 m d d be an awfully
ambitious goal. But we are trying to make it such
that space flight isn't nearly as specialized a s it is
M a y . That is why as I said befare, I think I am in
a transitory kind of program trying to lead into that
area. Certahly AXP will still be specialized, but
we are hoping to get some of the specialty out of our
systems and components.
QUESTION:
For anyone and I will pick Lee James for this one.
"Where will the polar apace stastion be launched?"
�MR. JAAES:
MR. SCHNEIDER:
I guess that means WWtt C h ~otr Emt Colast as %
launching site? Well, %%em's c%nougbextra eneqgy
required for the might y ~ put
a in arbit to require, I
think, a vehicle someQ3ng on the~o&er of the Saturn V
That would be the sfs;rting -win%. And I guess the
question lenda itseu to the fa& that if you are doing
I will field &at for R w o , and say .Y in the sense
d a w e re!scw in the chssic. Sunday Supplement
sense, no, tbre L not. However, a s you recognize,
s p w e rescue has m a y , m y wpwts. Of cOtErBe,
the Apollo Pr08;ram will c6n;tinue a8 the A p d o Program had. In thfa BBP Program we do not have a
rescue ca@i%ity per SB, except for the fact that we
have retreat m w h n l s m w b r e tlte cnzw can obviously
go back into the aammand and service modtrle and
come back rtt any time. If the command and service
module is the source sf the problem, we have the
optlon, at least up until the time when our food and
water begins to run out (and incidentally we a r e putting
a year's wo&h of supply on there hopefully) of just
staying there until the new command and service
module is s a t up. And I do have one eommand and
service module. Obviously that isn't rescue in the
classic sense, but it says, " ~ l r i g h t ,there a r e retrieval capabilities. '' When you get into & e r a of
tbe shuttle, then you begin talking about a vehicle that
will be reusable and willhave quickturn-around times.
And then, of course, the idea of rescuing stranded
people becomes practical and something that can be
real, including its use on the planetary mgssione.
.
the polar lautlch, you eitktar utilize an exorbitant
amount of energy getting into it, o r else you fly over
some South American taountrtes. It would appear to
me that inrstead of moving this eatire oomplex to the
West Coast, the only o h i c e is to ruegotiah such a
launch, if we a r e ever going go have a p o k r m e
station. I don't latow &at W is a firm program
item right now, so I presume they don't have these
negotiations with us right now. a t I think the answer
to that has to be the East Coast. There ie the d t e r native, of course, of a northerly launch, where our
negotiations a r e closer to home, but so is the first
land that you go over.
QUESTION:
Will Manned Flight Awareness Saturn/Apollo launch
honors activity be continued a t #9C 7
QUESTION:
MR. SCHNEIDER:
The answer to that i s an unqualified yes.
Quation for Walter Burke: What should the criteria
be in determining what types of jobs should be cmsidered in giving people the FMA Snoopy award ?
QUESTION:
MR. BURKE:
Question for Bill Bergen: Y w mentimed aircraft
design. Do you think that a 100 percent reusable
booster and spacecraft is feasible on the present time
scale ? Or arosldd a tmdmff, i. e., some expemdrrbles,
seem to be the mmt p r w t i c d approach, referring of
course, to the space shuttle?
f thinkif youdisting~ish,at any time, the value of the
contribuUon of an individual as compared to another,
you will in a seme really i~validate
the whole program.
Individuals a r e selected to do a neceesary job. And
each job that is so necessary requires such perfection that you should reward all on an equal basis,
rather than distinguish beween shop personnel, engineering personnel o r flight opertttious personnel. The
shop man, from my years of working with them, is
om of the most valuable tools that the American economy has, and nothing should be done to make him feel
that he gets a second grade award.
MR. BERGEN:
You a r e very restricuw?wbm y w say 100 percgnt
recoverable. In my opinion, the r&yiag of these
things ia very &$5nitaLy feasible. As YOU probably
know, each one is cheeked out after it rebms, and
in none of the f l o m spaecraft have we found any
anomalies after flight, There are a few things, for
example, that are very sensitive, like perbatteries a d h a d oontroUersl whsah w d d have to be
changed, But I tbinkrdtght awl reuse of the present
spacecraft is very definitely f w i b l e .
QUESTION:
Dave La%, eould you field this one, please? When
do you Wink the NASA program options proposed to
the President will be decided upon and NASA given a
firm go-ahead? Do you anticipah significant Congressional opposition ?
MR. LANG:
Aquestionfor Wocco Petrone. It says, "Space rescue
has not beendbcuissed for future missions. Are there
any plans owcerning apace rescue in the future?lt
Theanswer to that is we have been given no firm date.
However, there a r e plans, and we a r e moving out
on them. As far as Congressional opposition is con-
�c e m d (as in every Congressional action) there will
be oppwiaon, and khequwtionis just how strong tbat
oppositia will be and to what level. We have no indication a s to which one of the options will be selected,
o r how fast it will be selected. Lee, could you add
anythhg to that?
MR.
JAMES:
Question for Bill Brgen. It says, "You, a s a prime
cmhrwtor, have cited the problems of communicatiw between NASA and yourself a s well as certain
of your organizations. How can the second and third
team of contractors be stimulated ta do the jab?
MR. BERGEN:
There is one thing, Bill, that seems like it is worth
saying. I find the emotional support that I am aware
of in the Cmsrem , and with the public, e k . , to be
high for the options given to the President. I think
that the real problem, which all of us might as well
understand, is that the year end budget is taken up
by present day programs, This really doesn't giveus
the option of exercisfng one of these new follow-on
programs in the time scale that I believe the emotions
of the public and the Congress and the President would
allow.
That is a pretty good question. Baaicdly, I don't
think he has a prvblem any different than the prime
QUESTION:
QUESTION:
A question for me. Is AAP fundingsufficient to dlm
continuation d the RgtQA system that keyed the ApoUo
Program success? Is the same WQA approaeh
necessary?
Que~ttim
for Mr. McClellan. Slowdown in launches
has. It d e p d e ugon a e severity of it. In aome
cases, we hatre bad a subcontr&ctor who has had a
little difficulty here wd there, we have been very,
v e w helpful to Mm, whether he likes it o r not, and
commaiaate very intimately with them. So here
agaln it i~ a xrm8-r
of degree. I thinlc communicatiom is a very fa~cinatiagsubject. I could talk
about it forever, and we will never solve it. But it
is something that you have got to keep working on,
all the time.
at the Cape must give a disturbing feast o r famine
coxdition for €ke launch c r e w ! What a r e you doing
to level the workload?
MR. MECULLAN
MR.
SCWNEICrER:
We have baea fwdmd in rPkP h a sat&&otorgr manner.
We a m not hurting for mmey W year. I hope tbrs
same i s true n& yeax. We are in areasonably g d
shape, bItt we h v e not elwted to continue dl of
p m i w ApoUo RIBd&A practices. Where we a r e
ink-&
with ApoUO,
like the CSM where
we waul&'t separate them, we are oontinuitlg RWA
effort $d t
h ApaUo and AAP will be built on B e
same sk-a.
Ia amas such as experiments, we
are making some rather wide d e v i a t i w from the
tditimal W,ApoIlo, RaaQA requfrements. We
ape hying B h i l o r the R&$A requirements to fit the
n d e . .Taub o w we usually have C&bgory 1, Crew
B&@;
C&egory 2, Mimion Success; Category 3,
Seoo~&ry Qbjec@ve ; and Category 4 seems to have
the tltle All Other. I have a new category in AAP
mlled Category Experiment. And that just says we
a r e treating expetimerb on an individual basis and
giving them the R&QAtreatment that is commensurate
with the eperirnent. On some of them,we a r e telling
the pritlcipd investigator, llDeliver a satisfactory
piece Qf equipment to these specifications on such and
su& a date." If it doesn't work, we aren't going to
fly it. And it is his responsibility to be sure that it
works. On other experiments, obvioualy the more
complex ones, and ceFtainIy the ones that interface
with tlre spaeecrstft o r &e workshop, we don't have
thgt &titwb. We have to tailor the requirements to
fit the need.
The Cape Kannedy area, for our part of the action
there, is a Ceting operation. We conduct kunches
of Minute Ma,and help NASA with the Saturn launches.
The nature of that type of activity is one of peaks and
valley&, We reaognfze that, a8 do, I am certain,
most of the work force tbatls involved in that activity.
ThL does add a complioation, in that particular instance, that when you go into a valley period, we have
to call upon people to provide them other opportunities
withia the company. To make f m i l y moves, as other
companies have, we have move policy. It creates an
additional hardship on the people. But so far it has
turned out to be a workable situation. I think I can
best illusstrate that it does work by my own experience.
I have moved every two years ever since I have been
on the ApoUo Program, the last seven years. Each one
a little bit traumatic. But looking back and summing
all of them up, it is quite an experience.
QUESTION:
Question for Bill Bergen. Will you please amplify on
your statement concerning industry participation in
NASA studies and other preliminaries ?
MR. BERGEN:
Well, as I recall, I was trying to make the point that
at this stage of the game is where planning, and good
�planning really pays off. Take these new p
of which I think I cited t k aidkh. T b t h g C o d n
is to sit down and esaatbltab
bye an w
wmmt
on what are the p r i m a r ~gds. A& ef let "~lls
lZQt
clobber up those primary 60- by patbi%in a lot of
other things tbatmul.d be &ato hi%%%, or t k x g sibmebody would like us b b v e , m h
wej lose trackof
what we a r e really trying to do and what we are a&ally doing.
there rt formal mlod for mkg who the critical
p q t e are, w h m is for fh&ng t
b eritical compon e d s l I'm @ng to ask Lee Jamgel if be wmld like
to anmer that.
MR. JAMES:
Well,I don't lorow bow f o r d this @anbe. I guess
we will probably have to answer this by example. If
Veto Pec%o hem at uth~yeier,who I saw her@!W&yty,
will excum me, we might use him. Px&a.bly, the
Lee James, I guess yort arethe best qualified t o field
this one for ROCCO.It s a p Dr. htrmf$stated the
qualification of hardware& a &rough faifwe m d y sis as being assentid f a r the sme6us of the Saturn
missions. RSC prcrvides correet eval.uatio&s for
failures at the lam& ~ hBut
. does R86 akso m11ider
the possibility of &he reeurmnce d these hfiums
during flight?
MR. JAMES:
Well, the first part of that isn't m t i ~ e l yaccurate.
I think RCKleo would say ' W C irs an engineering onthe-spot activity, and for @om@
failure down there,
they do get into it f i s t . l' Tf the program management
chain, which I used to bea patrt daa,
gets it& tl& right
away and finds a deeper analysis sf Ws is required
and comes out of the ffSG iaboratoriw, of course, we
wait for that analysis. And Racmlshappy to wait for
it. What really is done at the Oape is to provide a
quick, on-the-spot d y s i s , and as we feed &is back
through our charnels to our prime contractors, tf that
makes sense, thenwe go&% it. Tf a deeper analysis
is required, then we have to take the time to do it. I
think simultaae~1sly,thou&, we ought to reJ b e that
the paper work through the UCR s y s t ~ m ,etc., is
feeding every one 09 these kacrk through the entire
system. It goes all
way to the primes o r the v a dors (as the case may b)to W e 5ure that the astion
that we took wasn't just a lucky one. 80 I ahW we
a r e real careful not to let
superficial answer that
might come up on spot k the final answer, in case
that answer might be wrong.
QUESTION:
It looks a s if we hawetime for one mare qu~stion. Is
there one more fmm the f l w r . The quetisn is lFfs
placer in our whole system, where the critical @kills
dropped the t m s t in- the c x s r e i e , b in t b mnufacture d tEre develop& dearigm for the 6-133 stage
of the &turn IB, wMoh is done by Cbrygler. Since
that a & ~ t y l w a sskrbd fimt, it quit%nabrally ends
be3or-e &erned tJ.m &tarn V wtlvity. And yet these
vehiclc&shve to be lannohedwith the necessary backup
of an m g i ~ r i u g
barnto tbnstnimum depth possible.
And backup in manufwturiog is absolutely required
and certainly the right checkout people. Mow, I guess
our Gowrnmntsl procees, a s Veto would probably
be happy 20 tall you, c o m b for doing this rather
thoroughly. Every time youget scrubbed down a little
bit more in money, ha has to e-he
those critical
s k i l I ~jnst a little bit mors clmely. He ftlLs probably
gone t k w g b tlws ref&mtAmn n s w e us of examining
the c r i t b a l eklllsthat he really has tohave ta Bs this
fob of coming back up, probably tea o r twenty times
by now. And emb time we bave to decide if the budgetary process iis suob, that, QK-we will really make
a Judgement here, that we are not going to have a
welding problem come baok up that has to be redone,
and take a chance an n d beping the weldem. The
next time it might be somethfag else. There are
certainly ermneprevmed exp&rta,and things like this
that we identify that we haw just got tn keep. So the
real problem now is h profitably utilize these. I
think it w s EJiU Bergen or s~mebodyliere earlier
tbat e d d that you oan'tget a soneept prsm motivated
and theta just prrt htm on the &elf and say . y r time
comes up two years f m m now. Ne haza ppt to be
oreatiwe during that time, 60 mceg~uidentify them,
the, proper u t i l k d i m of them &ring this drought, is
r e d l y s problem. But I think it is an i t e d i v e proceea that we have gone t h r o w now with each of the
c o a 0 r a o t a r s - ~ l a ~ North
,
Amgrican, Being, and
Chrysler-enough times to redly ferret out what
critical skikillswe just cranlt do away with, eventhough
they may not be fully utilized during the low period.
�MFA CONCEPT
AT W O R K
�JOHN W, SMALL
Assistant Field Director
Space Station Task Group
Manned Spaceflight Center
Frask Bomm stsked me to express hirr apalogiea to
you f o-rnot baingable to attand this m m b g f s wsslon.
Ats Dr. Fmi86 said, he was prs-emptd suddenly by
the White He,atse. PLB m a y of you know, Frank digeontbued hie active flying status in January d this
p m r to &vob his energy to formulating what ttr next
major w e mtivity will be. fh asked that I pass on
gtFd briefly describe the proo&e &ughts to
gram a t we a m n m working on.
A kev Pemwt Inthe plan roo heard Dr. Mueller de-
a
wrih yesWrdg is qGe station module. Recall
that he mentimed modules will be playing quite a role
i n t b mat sptteaprogr%m! This module will be capable d a wide r m ~ eof wienttfi~aotlviGY 4t e c h logical applioati&s. The space station itself will last
for ten years, with Borne resupply by reusable shuttles,
that you heard about yesterday, It will a~.ooomm&te
a twelre-rnm crew. sad will be kmadmd la& earth
orbit tq thie &turn V. TMS p m c d a r d i g u s a t i o n
( F i w a 1)a~tllkesa nuclear energy s m e for prim~ m~ of 26 Mlowa;tts, I t also has a solar cell
power syotmn
a bttukup c+iZity,
-
One d the firart tkings we will be doing after we launch
a qwme s W o a in1875 will be perfarming an artificial
gfxvl& eqxerbenrt, This particular eomept uEilLes
a spent $@tarnff m e . By oomcting it with a cable
arrange.$nent to the spaoa station module (Figure 2)
and by rvt~t;ing
this whole affair at &ppfoximat.ely four
r w ~ l u t b n sper mimte, wo
obtain up to 7/1.0 of
$he earth1s gravity at the space statioa module point,
The spwe station mduhe will be orbited rn (4eg)dt~ttte
Irumcha andwill be joined together ;rtvarta$ stages
of a q a c e baeebtrildup which you bard a b u t ye@tt%rday. The space base in this particular configuration
(Figure 3) utiiizes an artificial gravity capability by
a rotating hub arrangement, Those compartments
1
II
1
�are shown at either end &&twauldprovide the artificial gravity to the men. Over hare, on thefairlydarlc
side of the figure, I believe y w can makclee out our
space shuttle that is dark& to the slpaeebam. CBviously this is another key tothe next p r q p m - a lowcost, reusable @we shuttle that w d d be able to
sustain the spme base activities through refueling
and through cargo x e p h ~ e m t .
The compartment a s shown in Figure 4 dong the hub
axis is a zero g r a d e area ftnd the rotating areas
will be the gravity. field eompmtment8. We have f rm
flying compartmentsh a t m e c b k & out on the spwe
base and can p e r f o m ~ e ~ ~ i experiments
6Ps
in orbit
around the space base. ibltbmgh we bvsnlt dtea*ckd
any adverse bialqical effsct on our astrenaats to date
in the zero (3 envirament, when we are talk.txyp;.abwt
the 10-r
dusaptian mbsfone, my, of a phmetary
nature of ypwards of two tr;,three years, we haven4
yet studied the biological prooeases emugh to esEablish what b e e longer term effects will be. The lab,
a s you see in the contjepktaf form in Figure 4, is
actually zt facility that ccovld check out not only the
man and hihi13 oonditioniag (unlike other experiments
that we fomd in C&mini and Apoilo which were diacrete) but many aqMcts of t4-mman. It could also check
other triads of orgtWsms b stzldy eB&s that gravity
wtadly~min
*rm-wc w$p s t a d
-8.
1 mQght
afmg
, P&es t.@ h -o~h&edo $ s s ~ ~ T t f a r
ie&?b@thgeggE i t M t r g l b r e orient itwE. But, i f you push %tover, and keep it
over, ym will get a &a@ d deformed frogs fronz
thoae eggs. Same will br Ws*n withot& a y I*,
aid
there will be oreaturea t
S vaz-bs sm. &a there fs
a m m b i s m inlife tbt i a gravity-dqxndent. I might
also mention &&t car11(41 this yew in March, Dr.
Christian Barmaxi had a fear k t e r a t i n g comments to
m&e to s m & u w 5 W csf the 3tmw at Representatives &at s e W ka
Pt r e j a a n pr-em
that
we are e q e ~ i e n e i q g
& e ~ r s p b t s .EBmPetifely,
la@ mm$ioned Wb:&e ceU QZ & d ua are the same,
but the m&al atmotar~,%haDraiQ$bat.b i d e f i e cells
together, is different. Bnd it appears to be very
gravity-oriented. Dr. Bamard has suggested experiments in space to Jeam more Of this phenmenon. I
am not sulgge&.isa; that this space base facility could
scrlve aU mdtclilll probbma, but I rn sayin$ a t this
is a unique fadiity w
e e W be utilized L look et
varying
Q9 gravity ta better uadmtpmd our
hE1IE1Etll rneehsnbm.
FIGURE 4
Figure 5 skmv~en dtmc&iguraticu1 of a space
base, &gain oolliiksting Bgwm-ioua nodules ofthe m e
station &tzW Wwther. The artificial gradty effect
is created by. a '5r9' wtth a r o k t i n g b b . At the end of
each of these we have r pml-r r w t o r Theae atre
flying in W s dimtion, and again we hirre the zero G
operating arm, md .the gzdrlty weas. Ovew here you
see another free flyfng wtrmmisal module which I'd
like to s h w on the next figurn.
.
Figure 8 s h w s the free flying m&ulst d w k d to the
spa- baas priar toflyhg out away from the influence
of the space base to sbtdngCKld astronautical readings.
It has a 120-inch telescope. The module itself is
FIGURE 5
�FIGURE 7
p&ad off by mactioa control jets, Them solar panels
am a h m iA the atOW& ~.oBfiguration. After cheakout the ment-ntmthe coq-ent.
Thisdoor comes
op~n,
tub3 W ~oan
B
be made of the miverse, without the a t m o w r e getting in the way.
1'4 like to, with t
b next serieer of Rguree, mention a
few
&at could be dune in spree. Figure 7 is
aa BrXi(Btafdwmc~ptimDf certain earth r e l o u re~
mote sensing Qp
of equipmeat. Now some of these
figures that I'll be sbwing will rqretsent o r typify
thrisgs t k t we cgn Be in space. It doesn't neserrsruily
mean we'll Xrs doing dl of these things in the space
base, but we do i n t a d to complement 8utomabd satellite~.Where tt h e 8 sense, we w i l l send t r a i n 4
base, because the goal
not te require the very
~ r o a&Wing
s
thrrt m ~ t r normally
a
get. There
wW '$e a limited crew ~ w b rbut
, tr large capability
for transporting scientists of the general variety.
thw~
FIGURE 8
Figure 8 is a picture of the Dallas area and I am
going to try to pinpoint areasfor you, if you can make
them out. There are several reservoirs around that
are used for drinking water to service the populace.
As you can gee, there is some silt filtering into the
reservoir, there. Now that's a very interestingprocess, and the hydrologists can learn a lot about sedimentation flow from a synoptic view from the air.
Figure 9 is a Gemini VII film, an infrared picture
that Frank Bormantook. This is the ImperialValley,
which i s very well irrigated and a very lush areavery cultivated. This is the Rio G r m e River and
this is Mexico. Now the infrared film is sensitive to
the chlorophyl content of the crops; infact, the redder
the red, the greener the crops, and the more healthy
they are. You can see over here on the Mexican side
of the border, it is not very well cultivated yet. The
other bluer areas show uncultivated lands. So we can
get an idea of the health content of the crops.
�FIGURE 11
Purdue is helping us obtain r e f h t a n c e signature
properties in various amps (Figwe 10). The "wv
stands for wheat, and the "oft stads fox oats. Over
to the right you can see a format that's been established h t eingles atit khe wheat from the oats and
relates i t to what $he total resource in wheat would
be. Now all this can be geared to a central processing
station within the spaee bme complex, and other data
need n ~ be
t transmitted to the earth to get OUT total
wheat resources.
Figure 11 is a n ~ t h e rspace picture taken in Apollo.
We have a contour of cloud heights. Where it makes
sense, we will send eome of the trained weather
observers up there to get a better handle on our long
range weather forecasting by these contour plots of
altitude, leadkg toward our ultimate dream of actually
controlling the weather.
FIGURE 12
Figure 12 shows a program that we're pursuing'.
Yesterday you heard mrioua dements of the Apollo
Applications Program, the first three portions of the
chart, and today a bit about the space station, which
we plan tofly in 1978, and a space shuttle tothe right
which will also be operational at that time. All this
leads to a space base capability, a facility capability
that NASA would provide and the country would have.
What this wiIl do is lead toward a general capability
of planetary flight. Figure 19, for example, could
be a space module, that you see to the right of the
picture, that i5 being wsd in a Mars mission. A little
bit further to the right you see a conceptual drawing
of the Mars landing, and Cwa vehicles further to the
right r q r e e e n t Iander~that could be deployed from
an orbiting Mars vehicle down to the surface to bring
various samples back to the orbiting Mars station.
FlGURE 13
�So very briejay, I hope I have given you ~ o m eingight
into the aetirlty N a G is presently engaged in, with
fairly slzbskxntirif. Mustrkl swo*.
I wsatre you it
is a very, aery a i p r o u s effort to pravide the nation
with a broad ba&wtP4chnological capability in sptice,
Iw& like to e n r p h a ~ h that
e
right now we w e hthe
px6grmx1 defint:tion phaw. This is in anticipation of
program approval for national commitment in fpme.
Ats Dr. M u d e r said yesterday, we are qui* opkimistlc
that we wiW get this appmvd. The Vice President
has errdwlsad it,
we feel optimistic that the P r e d dent will give hie approval.
But .the optimism that we have is based on the confideme tBaZ the country has in the space team that
; i c W l y made fieApoIlo 11sa swceso The American
public now has been trained to look for m w e s s , following m c e s s They believe &at success will follow
sucoew tn the apace program and they continually
q e e t us to demonstrate success and rigfitly so. We
e m % &ford r failure. We want that program up there.
Whether we get it or aot, really depends on you and
your team. Y ~ n assamblere,
r
inspectors, the whole
team, Sum WFS~S
a phychological slump that we
ree-iee
right w . We talked about it yesterday.
And I @uppose we'll be tsrlkbg about it today. But
slump talk r a y breeds slump talk. All the bad
effects, and the insecurity that results in below par
.
.
workmanship, that we can't afford. But we have to
think positively now. How do we convince the assembler, and the inspector that he owns that part of the
spacecraft he is putting together, that he will inherit
that program up there? And how do we create an
atmosphere of his recognizing his personal contribation toward that program up there ? Now we cannot
inspire people to do specific jobs, on nebulous terms
like building a national capability for the exploration
of the solar system. We have to translate this to what
he is doing toward that capability, and make him a
part of it. He won't be doing a better job on the next
Apollo flight on a nebulous term. So we have to get
smarter in our translation. In 1954 Roger Bannister
broke the four minute mile, and that was a pretty big
milestone. Before that people didn't think it was
possible. But racers didn't stop trying to repeat his
performance. On the contrary, many people now have
&monstrated that capability. In fact, in a good meet,
a s many as four starters have finished in less than
four minutes. Wit it really depends on the pacer in
the race, how fast the race is going to be. And the
excellence of the race depends on the pacer. Now the
product of this symposium is to develop a methodology
of offering individual challenges. And we've got to
betha pacers, because we want that program up there.
And tomorrow really depends on today. Thank you
for your attention.
�DR. JOHN CUNDON
Director
Reliability and Quality
Assurance Office
NASA Headquarters
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I would like to
talk to you this morning about the relationship between
the l k n m d Flight Awareness Program and NASA's
Quality Program. Our Quality Program, as you might
surmise, is aimed at ensuring that our aeronautical
and spaee hardware perform its intended miseion.
However, the realization of this d m is not the sole
respomibility of Quality Assurance personnel within
NASA, or within our Department of Defense support
group, or within the contractor organization. This in
no way is to belittle the Quality Assurance people, but
rather to emphasize that mission success depends on
everyone doing his: o r her job effectively and conscientiously. And certainly it is in this context that the
Manned Flight Awareness Program has provided vital
support to our Quality Program.
The efficieat attainment of quality hardware is dependent upon many factors. However, there are two
which I would like to talk about this morning. These
a r e wmewhat intangible factors, but nevertheless
very important; specifically they are : the management environment relative to quality ;and the motivation of individual workers. Now, motivating the
individualworker to eliminate errors from his work,
and to constantly guard against carelessness, is one
of the very fundamental objectives of the Manned Flight
Awareness Program. I think it has done a great job
in accomplishing that objective. And certainly those
of us in the reliability and quality business in the
agency feel that it has provided a vital complement
to our function.
Motivation, and the factors which influence it, is
really a subject for the behavioral scientists, if it is
pursued in depth. I won't attempt to pursue it to any
degree of depth. However, I think most of us have
observed the contrast between the presence and absence of motivation, a s reflected in the behavior of
individuals. Let me cite a few examples which, at
least in my view, indicate the presence of motivation
in an individual.
e The person who has an open, creative, and responsive attitude toward his job and his coworkers.
a The person who enthusiastically searches for
better ways to accomplish things and is not
satisfied with the status quo.
The person who recognizes the capability and
experiences of others and is eager to learn
from them.
The person who finds a way to get the job done
efficiently and effectively, in spite of the constraints and obstacles which may seem insurmountable.
The person who unselfishly does more than the
minimum required.
These, I believe, are charact6ristics of motivated
people-the type of people who a r e so vital to the
attainment of quality hardware for the success of our
space missions. The type of people that we have fortunately had in great numbers on the Apollo Program.
The Manned Flight Awareness Program has played a
vital role, and will continue to play a vital role, in
the areas of comznunications and recognition. These
are b o key areas in the field of motivation. We must
inform the individual of the importance of his job, and
of how his job contributes to some total objectives.
And we must recognize the individual who has performed superior or outstanding work. I think recognition in particular if3 very important to the individual
who has done a fine job. Again, the Manned Flight
Awareness Program has provided us very valuable
assisfstace in these areas of communication and recognition. I am sure that those of you in industry who
have participated in this program have found this to
be a significant adjunct to your motivational efforts.
�Of equal i m p ~ ~ Wtomthe efficient aataiamezj of
quality hardawe ts th%
aavimtu~tent
regarbing q d i t y .
Ewrp day we we fa&
with misinbrprektirmns a d
Thi- GEomG
atwags
Eorn8t eeme ox& the
w a y w t U theyyiUA&i&&w WEQYo m might lo@cdy
& B @ $ s ~ ~ .
must be r n ~ f e &&.the
a ~
t h i ~ i 6 a m e f proc~i~
ess
& c i d w ~ ,indeed. m e iaftuemed
.
cost, schedule, a d g a ~ s m w l ~ t m s i M i o nP. some
cases, managem& &&$ma m y @w the impress i a that qadi@ was
¥ a@pmpri&econ.8:idkrration in the decision process. &iknaa;m@nt
th.16 has P
r e s p ~ i b i l i t tyo iderm the fm%xnm41
involved, af the
reaauns for such kek$ dm&Pms, aS aa e-omant
canducive to ;thea t W m n e of q d I Q 12&0m io to
be suMlEed. Haw a%enyidf aararst $8- bwd tXws m m plJ n t that manegem@&"is o d y iaterwW in mm&hg
a s c M d e , " OP "me d;$
kterested in rwtucing
eosts ? I f ''They hatre nu ititereat in q d t y ,tfi.eucef&se,
why s h d d I be i a b m a ia the quality of the- hardware ?" "Why sb@
1 wma aihether this pw~ticular
discrepancy, of Ws pmip;ticuWdefioiency is properly
recorded, appraprhte tmPfi%%ve action taken, d
properly ebsed wt PI1 tYIf mwmgem11 d r r e d t cam,
why should I care ? l ~1&*pea
~
~ fm be
, emugh a$ an
optimist to belime &at rn
e~&iZfmswwe. M
to firmly believe that. &la& X lave m e r talked t~
a member af the rnaatqeham who has given me
cause to reaeb ~ ~ ~ E E &%o
B%Be
I emttrzwy.
P
I Wrfntr
the ftmdameau prolpfem is W mwmge-misat opten
doas not take the%ine?
'ko p t the word & o m the line,
so that p q d e w&erg$aM wby a Wis$ran -8 made
which may seem to eaafU&witb appropriate C-mi&ation of the qualfQ of the product.
ness within the wgdation; d to e o m m i a t t k when
appropriate t$e iwmow
h;~r
&cigiuns that
&act that pmd*t, arjdd 3.W 9:ualtq ~f dhst product.
fa thka way, p a % m p t h t
m your side and atp
b e p i t onthe sMeolgmdq\letlitg.
The Mamed Eli@&&s\f-@%
cantly help& p u fda
P ~ c g r r a miua steme m a t meate this typs of
d longer duratioa, Aad it i s allrse obviow, or should
be, that our quality reguimmeats forh$rclwwa will be
more strfaaFent. Tkw el16 need fer highly mrptivatd
psrmmal, ooq3led with 0 BIE~IW&
x?lm&prn& €!tivfronmmt for q d i t y , wili 60ntime into this w a d
b a d e . Certainly the lkm& FligbG A w m w
Ragram wiU oontiaw ta be tt vital 8upprt to those
of us in the quality business %mk you very much.
.
�DR. CHARLES HUGHES
Director
Industrial Relations and
Compensation b r v i o e
Texas Instruments, Incorporated
After spending anumber of years being concernedwith
motivation and participating in some research, and
looking at all the work thatts been done in achievement
motivation, I sometimes get the feeling that this entire
spaceprogram was set up just to prove out the theories.
It is an amazing example, even down to the kind of
language, terminology, and concepts that have been
deveIoped, of the kind of motivation program that can
turn on the commitment of people to achieve clearly
identified g a d s . I am no6particularly concerned about
the reaearch and the conc&ts, only with the engineering d s maas application of these ideas within the
business organization.
When we look around, we came very quickly to the
conclusion that motivation comes from having a job in
which the g o d s are excruciatingly clear. So that at
m y point in time we know what it is we are expected
to a c w q l i s h . This bas got to exist from the top,
rigM down to the bottom of the organization. From
the chief honcho, right to the little girl o r guy who is
asse&?-kblhg
the anit. Sothe guy's bossturns out tobe
the number-one factor that affects this motivation.
Although, interestingly enough, we have found that
supervisors themselves do not motivate! It is the
content of the job. But the supervisor can arrange
condition8 in which the job content has enough motivating factors in it so that we can get the kind of
commitment that we need to have.
So some of these eonditioas of motivation that supervisors affect can be illustrated by Figure 1. If you
look first at the bottom b x , it says, !What we really
want to get is human effectiveness. If There a r e some
criteria that the organization needs to meet. These
a r e some suggestions. For example, in a business,
profitable growth, because under the free enterprise
system, that is your index of how much contribution
you are making to that society. Institutions that act
responsibly within tkat society do not have to suffer
fram em$ssipe third party intervention, which typically follarr irresponsible behavior bath for corporations a d individuals. And one in which the
organisatian itself is renewing, so that when it acoomplishes sr god, it <tan continue to be vital and be
alive a d contiaue to grow. Because, if i t is not going
to grow, it will go cnrt of business, o r d t should l There
&re some human criteria that a r e not particularly
different: the entrepreneurial concepts, the idea
of the organization is
that commitment to the god@
neoessary for that organization to grow and survive;
so too, the individual has commitment to the goals
for himelf axid whatever kind of work career that he
expects Co get; and stn environmentwithin the organization of mutual trust, not trust baaeduponblind faith
C O W D I I I O N S SATISFIED BY SUPERVISORS
EIP+mQMENT
H U M A N EFFECTIVE N t S S
CONDIT,ONS
ORGANUATEONAL
CRlTERlA
bnmlknad
kll-rdna
(a
WIG
-1bla
ritlzmmhlp
Rwli&la of ptsntiol
1
FIGURE 1
�but the kind & trua &at somias&am ctizdogue, kmmbg
that we know wfiat we are eqw&
to accompBsh.
Now, these kinds of conditiol.is weald be criteria to
determine whether or nat the o ~ ~ a is ~&Yw.tive.
o n
In the research thae hors bean done w I W wr orgWsation and in a number d
p h ~ d we
, hvebL.i&d
to isolate some of the Ia&oea L&0218 @efdlwnced
by management ias order t6 g& &%I
eonmttmel42 to tihe
success of the o q g m i & ~ ta &i@
z~aev-t
ccf the
goal. One of them &at 1. u$g$iDy-m&@dfail interpersonal confideace. I
s+ Wsg &out the old
1930 type of human rel&lms f~a"Wt collCinue
to exist in some ort~;rnts:&%w~.
T&.baaic theory of
pT%qp?ams.
these I consider oXjmieu2-e Tm&a 31"&itl.om
The idea behind them tfi &a%you ml-e pe@e into
productivity. All p w 8s.w C do 50s Qgme oat how to
l w e them enough,
i~ the right; w w I am talking
about interpersmal conftden~e~
w h W is bamd upon a
about people, of which
different set of a#-Sans
the most impolrtmt ons is high expectations. We will
expect excellence, a d we will communicate that l We
will not accept aery$ki~gless
exceIlence in the
work of T&emembers d the organization, whwver
they a r e l We will grat~ta freedom to act in pursuit
of the goal, a c e %w b w e a char m d e r s W i n g of
what those gods are4 We w i l l develop authentic
relationships, best m p ~ w s &by candor, a9d very
clear, dirsct, blmt ~ ~ ] ~ r n Z t R b ~about
t & o n what ts!
occurring, We win s b w a p e q x s t for the l i n d i v W ,
(1) because he i~a peoplea 83iEd @) because he can
contribute to the s u c m s of the enterprise We w
g
i
encourage ateam oriehtatios in thebest sense of that
concept-a group of people arith a aomman god, who
must all .pull together and make the oars bend o r we
will not get there ! There mast also be a clear under, kind of interpersonal
standing d these ~ o n @ t i m s a
confideme. Lt s a p ao@g abut m~thexhood. It
says nothing about pledge cards. It says this is the
job that we must accsnapliwb.
=
.
Another contlItioa,
probably Wre mas%singly important one, is g o d s which are meazxingful to the
individual who is expected to accomplish them. To
do that, they a r e going;-& have to be understandable
to him. He has to see them as desirable. They axe
going to have ta be c h a l l e m But, they will have to
be seen a s attainable. Gods that a r e too remote,
too long a term, too dtstwt, and with too little
probability & mccess wfB not motivate. But conversely, gods which a r e too easy, toa close, too
simple, do not do it either. The evidence on that
seems to be quite clear. Wals that are set high
enwgh to have a challenge, with &out an $0 percent
probability of s u o e e s for tfie individualal,will get the
most motimtion, T h m goals must be mutually
supported so that in emcution d his job, he is not in
conflbt with another goal af the organization. A
conflict that has already been mentioned at least
twice this morning is time schedule versus quality.
That kind of pd-com2ic?t is going to lead to confusion,
and possibly disaster. 80 goals rpust be mutually
supportive, SQ &at by doing well on one job, the
goals of another job are enhanced. And another goal
which seems to be critically i~z~portant
(if we can
engineer it; it is very difficult) is the idea of an
.
opportunity for d l members af the organization to
influence what those g o d s an?. It does not mean that
Ule assembly man on the line is going to tell the program director what. w go&@
the program are.
But il dates mean that aay per-,
& my level, to the
degree &at he or e
r
b has m uppartwitp to really
wderstmd, can make a w e inpuQ ts the plan before
the pLm is locked in. This will get a much higher
level of commitment t~ execute those goals.
+
knouler thhg W e%w
ts hawe been &menstrated
mr d o w again i s tfio idisra that systems should
help rathmthm msrtrict %e d i e v e m e n t of the goal.
Now peagls, mch a s myw& and twxountaats, a r e
point& out as papie who rest&& god achievement
tbrwgh t b ~eysbns they &wlQp.
These systems
a m Qftmsem g j y p w t p@@e as elaborlrte Mickey
the c o m p u W full of
are &bm'dhHe I%@& pflojwt g d r . %y$wmrshould
be u m k a M W 1 e tr, &B guy wrho hais to use meht!
(which is not the pmgrammer; it is the guy operating
the business). They should be controllable by the
w r , so that he am have the information and the
resoureem aecewaPy to do h t work. Systems should
be adaptable to the situation, rather thsn elegant
solutims to queatlana th3 have not been addressed.
N w that verybrief ketch af the conditiorrs for motivation seems Co be &B to q p l y at any level of the
oqgmization! And those are thin#@that could be under
the influawe md control of the mpemisor.
But the climate of the organizaticin can make this
either real o r can make it a facade ust a big game
in which no one d n r i t s that they d y do not agree.
Now in the authority-oriented orgmizatian (an organiration that runs on the authority of somebody to tell
somebody else what to do), this will work, It has been
qttfte wccswful. M a y businesses have been built
upon this. Many nations have been hilt upon this.
The question is whether it is efficient, a s effective as
some other mode8 , Let me point out ut couple of things
that give the character of an authority-oriented organization. It is basedupon a theory of social organization
snd business organization dttsignE4d to handle the industrial revolution, aver a hundred years ago, by a
socio1ogiis.tby the name of Weber He called it bureauc m y , at which time it was a good word. Now it is a
four le@r w o d . The basic idea behind bureaucracy
i r functional epwialization. See Figure 2. They will
put function A under one management team, and h c tion B under another management team, and C and D
and so on. And we will build el-aboratelong pyramids
of people. The onlyproblern with this is thatyouhave
to have a very well defined hierarchy of authority in
order to operate that way, because the functions do
not have a common objective. They do not have a
common god. And so in the authority of an organization, you will find evidence of this as usually expressed by some kind of a tree-shaped organization
chart that is extremely valuable 'because it tells you
-1
.
�who can do what to whom. And whether they have to
like it or not1 It is bawd upon the same concept of,
llYou will play ebllley ball, and you will enjoy it ! l1
Now b a u m od functional specidisation, planning
and eQntPd will have to be kept at a very high level.
Responeibilities are, for e q l e , separated throughout the organieation in which qaality is the r e m s i bility d the quality department and everybody understands it &;it way. And the authority for it rests
entirely with them, beause it is their godand is not
the god of the mst of the people. And we see that
planning andcontrol is what manag.ers do. Now if we
say that is the excludive right of managers-they will
plan and they will control-then there i s the third
function, doing. Executing the plan, is a function of
the people well down in the arganization. They will
find a common phenomenon, that the managers are
turned on. They are motivated because they have a
fun job. They have a job with motivating content.
But, thesy cannot understand why the hell the rest of
the people a r e not. So motivation as seen in this concept is the right of someone to tell someone else what
to do, the relationship between an hdiviclud and a
figure of authority. Going;along with itwill be typically
a a y s b n of rights and duties of tfieemployws, sometimes expressed as a mion contract, work rulars, and
other kind8 of things.
and control those people against that plan." Then
sommBese ftw below that is a group of people (typically
called labor, wage roll, and other obscenities) inwhich
the job is to tldo." But don'tplan. Don't think. Don't
control. Don't evaluate. And because they don't have
that in their job content, it is much tougher for them
to bgeome motivated. And we get a gap. And that gap
is a p r d l e m . It is a problemthat needs to be solved,
in industry, if we are going to get the kind of human
effectiveness that we have the right to expect. The
question comes down, "Now how can we design jobs
so they can be more meaningful? How can we get
more people involved in a process of being concerned
a b u t the goals of the organization; being committed
to the objective; and havingthose kinds of goalswhich
any person can relate their job to ?l1 During the space
program, up to this point, that was very, very clear.
Anybody could understand the! name of the game, and
what that one ultimate goal was, and possibly could
relate themselves ts it. Unless the space program
develops somathingthat is just a5 clear a s put someone on the moon and bring him back safely within a
deade-a v q c l e a r god, anyane can relate to thatunless a new one is developed that is as simple and
as clear as that (it is in your brain, you don't have to
write it down, you don't have to hang it on the wall for
people ta know it), we will suffer a loss of motivation
clue to the laok of a clear, meaningful goal.
MMIIAQL:MEWT/ LABOR DICHOTOMY
AUTHORITY ORIENTED ORGANIZATION
"uwn"
FIGURE 2
This kind of operation will run, if the management
accepts the assumption that it has all of the brains,
and what it wants is hired hands. But a8 Drucker
pointed out, you cannot hire hands. The whole man
comeas with it, and you get this kind of problem (Figure 3). It is a statement of a problem, one that is
known in industry quite widely, partioulariy in the
typical mmufacturfng organization in which up at the
top there is planning and control, organizing, the fun
thing;s, the motiwting things. And management says,
"Thatls my job, and I do that. l1 We come down lower
in the organization andwe get a bunch of people called
supervisors. We say, "Here is the plan, now go lead
FIGURE 3
In doing research and motivation, there has been
material developed over the last ten years that has
helped to clarify things about industrial motivation.
Up to that point, it was generally done with people
in mental institutions or with rats in the laboratory,
none of which necessarily predict what people do at
work. This research has become, I think, a set of
guidelines that can be used to tell management what
to do in a number of cases. We can test our plans and
assumptions against these, with some confidence.
This is based on the work originally done by Frederick
Herzberg at Western Reserve, which is now having
world wide attention as an industrial motivation con-
�cept. What it dm8 is eepwate Wr p h w m e n m tnto
two distinct fac-tms. Chie set af h t a r s relate to &he
environment im -oh tbe work is dmw. And thep de
not motivate at all. If they az%
yau
unhappy
and dissatfsfied, md you have 1.ow m o d . If 6%'
a r e g-ood, you me jut s o t didsawifid. There is
anather mt of fmhrs d%i&,
if present, w01e the
motivators. And ift-9 me a ~ t p r e ~YOU
t , may not
be unhappy, 6& gFaiu are no2 motivated either. You
a r e just there, sitt&gamand in a warmbath, ladring
at each other' s nayel. And management bus ym that
they love you, and p r work is iaapartant, while p u
put on left haad door h d a s , day deer day in the
automobile plant!
Figure 4 is a c w q t d -at k W oE organiaabtion we
could have. Lat me just pick on%a oauple of tbine;s,
so we can see how we might be able to eagkneer a way,
on a mass soalew&h Ohousdra ofpmpL, to g@tsome
advaqtages L&nPdivid;e,the orgmis&ios k s d upcln
goals, otherwise Imm as projwt management. Lea
us organize Q h s ~ t i ? m o r g ~ ~ 1 if~ ~
weu cranpossibly
n,
figure oat haw to, a% oMwr a matrix ot'gmizatktn, o r
on a cmc@ ofpmjecErs, d.Mpl%p s o w t s , and tasks.
Because Mthh &e kw&s Porn@-projset mamgemnt
concept, the pal@
get a lot ebmr tohome. AnB thm
the olrg&izaklon &tart 1.d
like
~ a PERT ahart, and
we burned the rest of #e onas that looked lke little
trees because they do not mpre~entwhat happens. In
fact this flow elm& type 0s orgmkatiols tells us how
the work moves through it, tells us what the gods
a r e at each point, and the time, and the other criteria.
If we do that, the planning and control aspects of work
get closer to the individual who is going to execute
the job.
.
This big wheel shown in Figure 5 (with a shaft through
the middle of it) is an artist's reprasenbtion of how
you might look at this motivatiw theory. It says in
the outer circle, "There are some needs that people
have, and if we do not mabtain them they a r e going
to be so unhappy you will not be able to operate. And
GOAL ORIENTED ORGANIZATION
THE
JOB
/
FIGURE 5
they have ta do with physic&l &@,
social ~ e e d s ,
stabs, orientations, se~urity, and some f m of
ecmomic need. So we lave p.bysica.1 working oonditiws. I file cafeteria is bad, people are unhappy.
So we spend money on the cafeteria. They ape not
now motivated-they are just no longer unhappy with
the c d e t e r k , So then it's the parking lot. So you
improve the park@@ kt. NQWpeople we not unhappy
with the parklot. They a r e still not motivated,
Companies can evolve elaborate schemes of air
conditioning, the esthetic6 of the buildings. If they
don't, they will havedissatisfaction. But they somehow say look how much I love you! Lo& what I give
you! How come you are not m5timWP The answer
to that is, "Look at what you have asked me to do1
That is what turns me on o r turns me off. '' People
have social needs. I$ is nice te have a Ghristmas
pwty. If you w e gohg to have a Christmas party
for the plant, have a g m d C h r i w s party. But don't
expect any motivatia frm itE Matter of fact, you
might as well not do it. It does not lead to work
performance. However, if p q b expect to have a
Christmas party, they would be unbppy if you don't
do it. And if you give a good enough one, they will
temporarily not be dissatisfied
.
Status ? Status can cauae us problems. Status helps
us get that gap. Status is always there. Some jobs
are more important than other jobs. That is a fact
of life. It is not necessary to create executive dining
rooms, however, to reinforce the fact that we are
management. 1t is not necessary to measure your
office to see whether it i s m e footwider or narrower
than the guy's wPkt door, o r to make sure you have
the u W a t e status symbol, a secretary that looks good
from the front aad. the back l These things inhibit eonamunication. They cause problems. They also waste
assets that could be spent in more meaningful ways.
Orientation is necePsary. If people don't know what
is going on, they will invent what is going on. So we
tell them what is going on. We put our brochures and
company rumspapers and tell them how great and
�wonderful mdimportant their work and the company's
business is to this space program. But that does not
motivate them todo their work. There is no evidence
that it does. But if they do not h o w those things, they
will be confused, disoriented, and possibly dissatisfied. So we can remove dissatisfaction through this.
We should do it l We should do a good job of it l But
we a r e not getting motivation yet.
Security? If we a r e insecure in our work, we are
going to be unhappy. So we get absolute security! It
does not lead to happfness, as manywives will tell you.
Now economics is an interesting one. If we don't get
paid enough for what we do (or we think we don't) we
a r e going to be unhappy. But, when we a m paid enough
for what we do (we have a nice base rate) we a r e
temporarily not unhappy. But I asaure you, we shall
be unhappy again about our pay. We may have had
breakfast this morning, butwe will need to eat again.
And regardless of how good the breakfast was, we
don'twant another one right after it. And a s Herzberg
says there is nofood whichwill keap you from eating.
So the stuff in that outer circle is environmental. The
environment in which the work is done. Let us make
the environment good.
If we want to get the things that really make it go,
it is in the job. And they are the needs for growth,
achievement, responsibility, and recognition. Those
are the things which motivate. And they come, not
from existing, not from being within the plant1 They
come from the job we have asked people to do.
Growth means that we can continue to improve our
skills. We can learn. We can grow. Responsibility
means we know, clearly, that we are responsible for
making cePtain kinds of things happen. When we
know quite clearly that we have that responsibility to
get results, this can motivate. Recognition for doing
well oan motivate.
Aad achievement turns out to be the strongest motivator of all, in any work group studied, whether it is
salesmen, engineers, accountants, or ladies on the
assembly line. Achievement, a s all the research that
has been done overthe last several years says, isthe
strongest motivator of all. And achievement comes
from long-term involvement. It comes from a career
concern in the way of advancing yourself through the
organization, through what you do. And it comes
primarily from having goals in the work-and in the
organization-which a r e visible to everyone. Which
a r e clearly understood! And w h i ~ hare seen a s desirable! And when we achieve those goals it almost
becomes its own reward. Figure 5 shows examples
of things that can take care of these conditions. For
instance, under economic, we give insurance, we
give holidays. If we don't do that, we don't keep up
with the industry. I think we are going to have dissatisfaction. But having nine holidays, and getting a
tenth one, never produced any motivation, only an
incredible expense and disruption. And automatic
increases (which gives everyone the same raise regardless of their level of performance) takes pay out
of the motivator category. If you want to put the
economic factors into the motivator category, what
we would do is tie it to achievement. And the better
the achievement, the better the pay; the poorer the
achievement, thepoorer the pay. And for no achievement, there shall be no pay!
The thing to do with both the authoritarian managers
and the non-performers is to place them with your
competition, because they are a drag on the organization and they will create dissatisfaction. We have
learned this in our organization the hard way. We
continue to recreate these studies and to our amazement find that it holds up most of the time. We give
free coffee in the morning and afternoon. It does not
have anythiig to do with motivation, but if the coffee
isn't any good people a r e going to holler. Once upon
a time somebody started giving free doughnuts in the
morning. Some companies may think that that motivates! I assure you when thedoughnutmachine would
break and you got a brokenore0 instead, you cannot
believe the kind of dissatisfaction that occurred. So
we stopped all of that, and interestingly enough, there
has yet to be the first comment about discontinuing
thatpractice. And every company has little peripheral
practices which are tradition-posters and signs,
slogans, company songs. Maybe it sells insurance,
but I don't think it'll get a guy on the moon and back,
These things, if they are tradition and they don't
disrupt things too much, and they amuse the management, they perhaps should go ahead and do them. But
let us not confuse, however, the maintenance of the
environment, with the content of the work. That is alI .
Motivation is in the work itself.
Let me just tell you one quick example, from a company that I once worked for. I went to work and they
said, llOkay, you're a hydraulic test inspector. fl Now
that sounded like a good quality-assurance type job.
They gave me a little bottle of purple dye and a stamp
and, hot damn, I'm a hydraulic test inspector. Iwent
to work with a guy. I said, "Hi, I'm supposed to work
with you, but I didn't bring any tools. " He said,
"That's all right. You can use mine." (Because he
didn't.) For four months he did nothing. And I said,
''What do I do?" He said, "Pick up this casting. Bolt
it down to that jig there, and put the a i r hose on it.
Drop it in the sink of water. If it doesn't bubble in
15 minutes it's good. Hitit with your stamp, put it in
that box. If it bubbles, it's bad. Put it in that box.
I said, "Is that it ?I1 He said, "That's it. " And I kid
you not that I made 800 percent of standard the first
day. And truly, it was explained to me in the parking
lot about that, So the next day I worked very slow the
first half of the shift. Did nothing at all the second
half of the shift, made 200 percent of standard! I put
half on my work sheet. The other guy who did nothing,
whose tools Iused, got the other half ! And the department was full of about 60 people who did the same thing.
And we never saw the supervisor, except when the
shop atewa~dwould call him and explain the benefits
of behaving himself. Where's the motivation? 1'11
tell you where it was. It was those ten minutes in the
morning and afternoon when the bell would ring and
they would play Hillbilly music, and we would toss
washers in a hole in a board l That was motivating,
Why? Because it was under my control. I planned
it. I organized it. I evaluated it. I might even win
�60 cents at it. f t was grotrrptlr, s e h i ~ y e m a1 t Rserponsibility and rwognikionwere d l p r e s m t . But 20 mfntttes
a day? No, wmething wms m o w , BomeWng was
really wrong with an orgmfr;ert;2on&at
l$ke
that. And I assure y w that .fn my organis&tion we
can ffnd the same kind of thing. It is a seversprobl~m
that needs to be a&tiwked, when people a m givw-i
routine, Mickey Moueel stuptd jobs to do.
There is ab@e m&rdiag atAT&Tmade by BobBorrcZ
who has work& quite a bit on thie They a@k&a el,
' W t 1 s the best thbg about your job?1' Sht? saysl
"The money.I1 may. He says, llAU d&t, w h t v s
the worsk thing &boaty a w jab?1T T h e money.w We
said, llArmtt you c m W i e w purseif?" f i e says,
ltNo, itle the best thing, t3nd the w ~ mtfriag,
t
because
it ties me to this stupid job. She rm&atands the
motivation theory.
.
What we need to do is to fwd same way of making
work meanbgfd. That is the d y way we Blre piw
to get motivation. Fnxl H a ~ ~ b w gwho
, originated
this researeh tells a veqy great sQry. He mid a
c o m p y call& him up md wys, IWe have a mativation problem and want you to mnne d m and see
if you can enrich 6hem j&r a d indm them mare
motivating. lt fie went dowa and looked rrnd says,
lWell, you have got to ehmge ttie job." T h q said,
"There ir ao way we can eb@gethat job.It He says,
7tWe11,then, you have these d t e m t t v e ~ :1. Automata
i t b e c a w itfs unfit for hmax c~fStiD%Pti@n;
2. Live
with it, a d go ri@t abed kiddfsg M e &at heir
work is impoPtant. Or have a morale problem. " They
said, "1 thought f01x were aa @pertin motivation.
He said, ItYou got an expert's a n m e r I t
.
There is no way ta mativatew-ith impoverished, trivial
kinds of tasks There m a t be meftning in the work.
It is a problem, particuZaFIyr ia d w h r @ , to do
this. It is not easy. We. have buiIt these hinds of
jobs. he unims ha6e rsststerd US. And a y or*zatio-ns are r e d u ~ i q t bcoMerat of the jab to a very
narrow band of short oycle, highly rejmatable processes. And as Harry Lminrpan my@, 'When a man
asks you for a job, he9s a&hg you to t#ll him who
he is. So yyeu give him so~n&ircg atupid to do. I
guarantee he wiU behave in a stupid mrtaner We have
got to get out of this k W of probl~m.
.
.
Figure 6 puts these Wo thing5 together. That gap
that s h m s in between labar. You could put that g q
between the top manrpe;emeat
the middle management just as well, F a r ezmetlj the s u e kinds af
reasons. All namag~bmerrtj~bg,j u ~ tW a u s e they
carry that title, am not rnaaniagftd, It depends on
whether o r not they inm1ve tn a top d m , caseadd,
iterated process af ddithe program, plan, and
objectives. Izr-001w~eattrtl the $ m i n g procress, nst
just W i n g w h k the p b is, but havingk&mdmeate
the plan embe very pwerfd am3cam ge& &high degree
of commitment to mhieve.
achievement motfvation comes from gads, and knw&g what the pals
are. Comes froen invo1vement and planning! Bnd
that seems to be the mewer.
The eqgbeeririg Of this prtxess, 08 a mass organie a t i d &, wili be vite difficult to achieve in
iW. W setkiag gays that any job ought ta have
plaxmbg itr.it*dobg init*
contr~llw
o r evaluating.
And wbtsver happeaad Q baderrhip? Leadership
of the &aimern
is becoming lest3 a c ~ e p b b l e .
m e r h i p in *e ww m a p a -a
w h t she guy
above does is involve the p q l e below him in planning.
Thatre an operational definition of leadership. It
seems to have nokhirg ta do writB p e r d i t y characterietios. It s-ly
has to do with high expectations
of people. We should think well enough of what they
can do for the organization thatwe a r e going to involve
them a8 znnch aswe can. T h p would have a series
of cirales going &own through the organization, just
a s f a r a s we ern engineer it. So &at every job has
s e e motiv&ing element, Werwirse, we will just
have to tolerate the morale problem, o r an incredibly
large cost.
me
Figure 7 contains some Meas taken out of a book by
J o b Gtwcber caIl& W Rmewaf, that I think do relate
tothis b a r b s s of e b y b g dive and k q b g the orgaaizatlon gruwing Particularly with the kinds of experiences that mmy people have been involved in the space
program 4m r d y must be experiencing at this time.
The first is an effective program for the recruitment
and development of Went. That goes without saying.
.
We &odd not acegit 1~8s
than w e l t e n c e in the
people we bring in, if we have any way of doing it.
Swahdly, provide a haepitable envtmnnwnt. That
s a p , "Take good a m of the maintenance factors
anb then ehu$up about it. Third, prmide an adequate
ayetern of iaternal, c ~ m u n i o a k i m laot
, in one direction
through & diefectric layer of management, but one
tb$gem both ways, with the same degree sf speed
and accuracy. A tough problem. It flms down so
easily, and it does not come back. Fluid internal
structure which says orjgmiaartiaal s h c k m e i.s a
dqmmdmt v r u l d e . Do not fitpsujgets into the current
hmeauoratlc orgmimtian. Change the arganiaatisn
any time the godis change.
Watah out for becombg a priaomr of your own procedures. That has happaad to all af us. Qnce upon
a time I heard of a man who wnt in rtn expense account.
ft had rubber BoQts m it-eight dollars. They sent it
back ta him saytag the company d-It
buy r u w r
boots, that's your e x p n m . The thing e r n e right
bisck. %matotd, and a note, "Thebaob are in there.
T q and find them. I dm heard af an enginemring
miwager m e time wha famd an edict whioh said,
"Thou s W t n o t buy anymore mimossopes. He says,
got to have that ]artiaular microscope, I cannot
reach my project ~
d Management
~
. said,
~ "You
can'tkve themicroscqe
So he filled out @purchase
requisition, listed all of the parts, rand the last line
said, wPlwacaassemble M o r e delivery. It Now, that
is ome way ta
y w r creativity. It might be better
that it went into the project.
."
�THE SELF-RENEWING ORGANIZATION
I U I A ( l m M V E C I W U I I I 1 0 1 m r ~ MINT AND
I
R
WT A W
rnnmumrn IOI TIE
CIOV~DC.A IIOWABU
IW#V(DIUL
An L D E P U A n
UIIO*
s v I D 1 w nllcmuL -N+
YUWU)(t A R U l O IKmWLL
s IUI w u a IOI -nu4
slnwmmc
nr
rrroc~uDV wwsv
WLll.EcoyECI~OF~I*OCMIIID
nu
POR Eomrmm rm rmco INTIRUTS
1W1TUQWWWIvUTIWM*IIHlJI~
FIGURE 6
V e W Werests do get created, and they get very
probative. M they w e very wasteful of resources.
Particularly, human resources.
The orgmBation e W d be interested in what it is
goiag b became-not what it has been. Never mind
d t your p a l wm last year. History is fine, but
Gannet do p b n i n g b&
on extrapolation from
tie p t . Wtth atrowgic planning (glflmn@ with gods)
the qaenc0ioa is, where do you want to be 7 Now, let
ras work bmWa&s, through our ptoinning cycle, to m e
W ~ W
W eP
rerally get there o r not. T h t ie the
way yew f U auk whether the gods are meaningful.
N<rt b w i s e w g osmlay a i~txaigghtline ac~o6lcrthe chart
a d make it go to to p&t, But, where do we really
n d m d w m t tobe? ?eatbe chslle~lgeisto engineer
r way of gettfng tbre. Does the organization have
g o d s &at a r e visible, desirable, and challenging to
ita members 3
FIGURE 7
In s u a m w y we are not going to motivate anybody by
loving them with fringe benefits, programs of faked
superficial involvement, p l d g e cards, and other
obe~o1et.emanipdations. We have got to have good
working conditions. Have a good environment for
people to work in and do their job. But these a r e not
going to motivate. The only thing that is going to
rnotivsate is things &tot we ask them to do. Whenever
we have a motivation problem, we should & say,
"1 wonder what the hell is wrong with that jguy?" A
better question is, "I wonder what is wrong with that
guy1$ jab?" Because, I assure you, when he i s out
playing golf o r bowling, he i n probably so motivated
you wouldn't recognize him. But, under those conditions, he has significant opportunities for motivation. If we would engineer that kind of process at
work, then we could achieve our organizational goals.
Wlt we must take the time and care to have the goals
well understood, clear, constantly visible, with realtime feedback through true involvement in the goal
setting process.
�INNOVATIONS
IN
MOTIVATION
MODERATOR
PANEL MEMBERS
EUGENE E. HORTON
JOHN WILLMOTT
Chief
Manned Flight Awareness Office
Manned Spacecraft Center
IBM
TOM SCOTT
The Boeing Company
DWAYNEGRAY
North American Rockwell
TONY TOCCO
TRW
HAROLDDURFEE
Grurnman Aerospace Corporation
GORDON MACKE
McDonnell Douglas Astronautics Company
��It was pspnted oink by Seu
yesterday, and several af MIF mtamgff~eWt,t-B$:tface-ta-face colifmnnication S s probably the best tool thatwe will ever come
up with. So, wtfb &at background, I would like to
start by b-tng
Bur panel: From my right, John
Wilhott of IBM: Torn Eic& representing Boeing
Cornpimy, Dwaytxe Gray of North American-Rockwell ;
Tony Tmoo, TRW System, Redondo Beach; Harold
W e e , Ortfi~wnanAerospaoe Corporation; and, fid l y , G o ~ d 6Ma&e
~
of McDonneU-muglas Astron u t i e s Ccmpmy. WouM &nv of vou like to start
thing8 off ?
Tom Scott
Stmethe panel is discussing innovations, I have found
imovatione tobe very effective in some, programs for
which 1 have BsLd mqxmsibility. Effective both from
the viewpoimt d getting the employee participation; and
effective from the viewpoiat of getting the interest of
management. It may be more meaningful, though, if
I start wt with some of the results we have achieved
tbrough innovations of well-established programs.
First, in a 1400 man organization, well run, the best
record of employee partkipation of any organization
waa in Baeiag. They came in with some innovatiow
at the direction of the Vice President. And we raised
the &tal eost savings from $1,500,000 to $3,500,000
in a p a r i dof one ymr. Dr rather, we changed in ten
weeke to that rate, and it was actually accomplished
in a y a w , In mother 16,000 man organization, we
came up with a very simple innovation that you may
w w t to me.
last year we had a total eost savings
of 42 million dollars, 74 percent over our goal. I
attribute the whole thing to one bit of innovation.
I have foIls3lued 10 precepts, 10 ideas in motivation.
One of them i%innovation itself. But I'd like to recite
the ten principles for you.
Ftr.st, anybody cosneot8d wlth the program from
management on down, must distinguish the difference
between pep talks, inspiration, and true motivation.
Pep talks can create enthusiam, Inspiration can
create de&ermhation. But motivation affwts an attitude change. And that is the thing we must get.
dmotivation results in the employee's
feeling a proprietary inten=& in the company. A
rssponsi$ili%~as a member of f h team, and dedication te ul:tiIrr.ate mission sucGess.
Thin& motrvatioa result8 in a permanent and
sustainbg effort towards the a t t a h e n t of management gera2s by &e employee, Inspiration and pep talk?
The results last a s long as you apply the pressure,
and them they drop off.
Fourth, moti&ion can be measured to €he extent
the employees contribute ideas to management. Many
peo3JLsdonftknow how to measure (especially mmagemeat people) md don't understand thatmotivation can
be measured. It is measured to the extent that employms cantribute ideas.
the extent of the contributions a r e ultimately measured in dollars of cost savings or cost
a w o i h e , They are inseparable.
east sauinge,achievement reflect the degree
af *Owem management shows for motivational pro-
m,
m,
grams. If you show mmagement that they a r e saving
money, they get concerned with motivation. And it
makes your life easier.
Seven$h, a motivatianprogram yielding a million
dollar c08t sa-s
o r cost a m i d a c e , should have the
same level Elf management support and interest as a
$20 million contraact in which they a r e anticipating a
million dollar profit. I have come up with a theorem
of my own on motivation. I say that the motivational
results vary directly as the level of management support, times the square of the talented insight of the
motivation manager, divided by the physical results
of the motlvatim effort. And by the physical results
I mean that you divide by the number of charts, posters,
and everything else, There is an old Germanproverb
that states that the better the carpenter the fewer
the chips1
Eighthi the same is true with employee motivational programs. The fewer evidences of motivation
effort that the employee discovsrs, the better your
motivation effort. The best program in the world
would be one that is not a program-the type of feeling
you get in your family. Now comes the key to the
whole thing that attracts the interest of management.
Ninth the program results, measured in dollar
cost savings, can be permanently increased at least
100percent, 10weeks after you energetically integrate
the individual motivation of employee participation in
cost improvement programs. When you eliminate the
coxapetition W e e n programs, get them working together, in a period of loweeks you canincrease your
results 100 percent. It is just as easy to increase
them 100percent a s it is 10 percent o r 5 percent. And
you can go beyond 100 percent, if you want.
Tenth, motivation appeals must be on the level
of interest, and level of comprehension of the employee group to whom it is addressed. Too many
programs a r e real fancy programs intended to get
the aesthetic approval of management, rather than
being a Lawrence Welk type of program that appeals
to the employee. Now I think that if you integrate
your efforts, and post your results to management
intermsof dollar savings, you will get their support,
and with the integrated effort accomplish an increased
employee participation at the same time.
-9
-
Mr. Horton:
Thank you, Tom. Dwayne, do you have any commentc
from North American ?
Mr. Gray
Well, Gene, I guess I have a little different philosophj
in regards to this thing called motivation than a lot of
people have. I don't think that it is the tools of the
trade that we use. Admittedly, when they a r e used
discreetly, I think they can help an awful lot. But I
think that there is one thing that rnustbe in any effort,
whether o r not we are speaking of a formal motivation
program or any type of goal to be obtained, and that
is the proper attitude. And I think that this attitude,
too many times aims at the employee, at the working
level. I think that if we would change our phil~sophj
�here a little, and we wouU start s
ards a t the highest level of
gram aimed at the p e r s o d bstaa&ax$sof &%memhers
of management, down t&mugh &% chain of command,
I don1t think, we wodd hrv% -to
&out o w people
too much, other than @vbgh m tfke guidame. Because they will work to t
h p ~ o r s -sz ~
that we set. I tbnlr, wke&ex WE use the other twb
o r not, if we contin- b maintain and keep these
standards in front of a r people, m d then recognize
f ~ r&acornthem very meaningeuUy glrd ~ i n ~ e r e l ytheir
plishments, whatever t h y &&& t o w d the &andards, I think that will give us m m motivation than
all the posters aand awspper dfppinger
we a=
hang up, And that is p r h e e l y what we a r e basing
our motivation effort on a t $he present time in the
Space Division. Our stadardh) have been set by the
President of Space Division, & all the people a r e
aware of &is. It is carried down through the chain
of command, and we a r e plotting courses toward
achievingthese goals, And we don't have to just speak
in terms of e r r o r d r e e performance. Ifowever, we
have, a s Mr. Bergen and several of the othw speakers
pointed out y e s t d a y , cost axid eoheaules. But whea
we start aiming our differeat p m g r m s at W s e
different goals, when we e;st to a certain level, we
have to qecify exmtly what we m e m and w b t we
want from oar people in order to obtain thew g o d .
Too mmy times we speak of motiva,tiomin geaeralities
And too many timer we fastrata not only the peoplq
but supecrisisn. If you are t&fng &wt preveding
defects, then you have to to1 them that is what you
want them to strive for. H you are talking a b u t
saving dollars, you aim your pr-hW;n
at that, but
you have to be speeifio I we too many rncttivation
programs where people tfiidz they can just hang up
the word motivation, a d that is going; to take care
of all the problems. Well, it's not. And I think that
the way the staulms are a& by mamgement, at the
highest levels, and communicated down Ehrmp;h the
ranks is what is going to determine the success of
the program.
.
.
Mr. Macke:
Could I get back to the original statement of what we
are going to take back with us, if I might 3 I think this
seminar is the finest seminar I have aver attended,
and I have been to all of them, as you knaw, Gene.
And I have found this one to be the most enlightening
and the most productive. What I will take back from
this seminar is something I hsrd never beea able to
take back before. And that is fine messwes from
our great wM* father who sat up here yeabrday,
and the hlMA great whtb fathers who sat up here
yesterday. I aam goingto take all those meaeiages back
to our people. They wee to the point. They were
objective. I think I m d d sit hem and talk about what
we have done with VIP at McBonnell-Dougla~. But I
see very mimy fi9nilia.z fmes out there. I think yau
all knuw we have a s a c ~ ~ d u l p r o g r a mIf. any of you
are not familiar with it, you can write to me at Huntington maah a . we will send you all the brochure
material necessary.
1&iak what is important t-y
is to talk about what
we are wing to do with t;odq7s~liaate-with cutbacks,
critical skill loss, ad ma far*. It&&& the message
from both industry .dtnd MA&%. pe~&rdaygpve us m e
of the mewem. I think p r a b & l ~&& m,W 5namrtan-t
thing is for fellows like ousmfws, m the oWd bme,
and wr com.terg8TtS throughout. the rest d indwtzy
to ktmp ourthinking positive-go w d and generate
a gookt olimat&. I have been e q m s d to same of my
00-h*
l
across the nation, and some of my own
pmpZe b k home that have a defeatist attitude. How
in the hell are we going to motivate people, thou-&
s f them, if we go arownd with a long face. So I think
the first objective-to meet tke demanding conditions
of the present climate-is for us to start thinking
pwikive and to show that we are thinking positive.
I d s o think that I wodd like at this time to thank
you, Gene, axid dl your coqtexparts, for these excellent presenhticms, and for the type and caliber of
persomel who were on this rtatzd. And I would like
to
for a round of applause to show appreciation to
our Ivbumed Flight Awareness counterparts and thank
them for the exc8llentpr;mel they designed yesterday.
I havebefare me reams ofpaper that say what we a r e
going to do, a d I am not going to d m l l on the details,
just some of the highlights. We have had a program.
We a r e looking; at our programs at MrtDonnell-Douglas
and that is quite a bit of ioeking, I'll just pick out a
cmple of the highlights. We are guing to remtivate,
witfamore emphasis, w w d o r awarenew programp
both the mainline a d workshop. We have already
developed an i n t e d awareness prop;ram which will
get the message and cammunieation down to the grassroots lmal, from the b p down, on the responsibilities
of the people, their part of the fob, This has been
going on constantly. But we are going to do it in a
clarsmom manner until all, everybody on Saturn and
Apollo rnrrinline anB workshop, has gone through this.
We are going to train their supervisors, because when
they hear it from their supervisor, this is more important to them. It's long lasting, that's one thing.
The other thing, of course, is the community-the
wives at home. I don't think anybody tonchd on that
yet. They are going through these pangs of insecurity.
More $0 t k a the husbands who are still working. Sa
we hatre devised a program to get the message of
motivation, morale, and the future of the space industry, through radio statim communication-free
time incidentally. And our first attempt-and it's
only pham one, subject to be changed each time-was
abaut three weeks ago. We negotiaw with radio
station KPOL, th r e d quality standard AM/FM in
Orange County, &at has &out a 200 mile transmitting range. Within that 20Q miles is of course
McDonnell-Douglas, and many of our competitors
and many of our team components. So we intend with
this program, which will go on for the rest of the
year, to get the message out to the community and
the housewives. I would like to play the taped message just ts show them what is happening. Before
the tape, one grand and glorious thing that happened
yesterday is that Mr. Wallerburg, our president,
said that he felt the greatest tool of motivation was
getting out there in the shop. And believe me, starting
Monday morning he had better get himself a new pair
�be^, Iwmme be is e o m m i t W m ; but, he is
right. Bnd many atber feUms said this yesterday.
AMtW's~tk~*zfiaethipg. I t h i n k a l l d w h e r e
e a t Wits fathers
should k damn grateful &at
were her* y t a s t ~ y ,because b y axe committed
d m . It mt@t help with the budget sltuatton, gentlemen. So if we a d d have the tape now.
d
dpollo estromub had barely returned from the
moon when ht~ricmulrabegan to a&, 'Tf we a n
reach the mom, why can% we settle some of our
lesser problems here on earth?" Columnists and
commentators pointed to tfre cdlbaeks in the automobik indastry Qf d&&ive ears, short lived
applianc~s, and poor quality smtrol in general,
aug:p@t;Bdthat perhaps other IndustlPies might learn
from the wrospwe industry, how to do it right the
first time. The Pentagon, NWA, the Congress,
and evan the President had ganged up on contraci
tors hthe apace program, and demanded that they
do somethinga b t quality control-that was in 1964.
In 1969 we reached the moon. The M ~ l k ~ e l l Dazrglas Curp~rrttioareceived last year's award
from the .Pmtagon for oatsbrtnding results in the
program designed to cut costs m d defects. I
tous& the Bmta Mmica p l a t and talked to the
people involved in the program, and must admit
ttidlt 3 was not only ifilp~e8sedbut overwhelmed.
MeDomell-Douglas calls its effort the VIP program. The vice president and gemral manager of
the western atvldm d McDamell-Douglast aaFkronautiee division, Jack Logan, explained to me how
it works.
The b&c grugram that w w designed and developed
by Charlie Able, who fs, the chief executive officer
d & m u - D o u g l w Astronmtbs, was really
d w i m d on a rather simple philosophy. Number
we, €hepeople a r e importmt to the tow 'mmagement objectives and that you had to conv&ee them
dhert they' are important; and that you have to show
vw;r simsre rtppreciakion-for them; and show them
&at it does result in benefits to them, to the camp a g ~& Da & country. Peopb tehd to forget in
the ratbe af by-to-day &fort, that every job that
theydo i e w r y i m ~ o r t & ~We
t . in the middle mana g & d , Pn &e G e r management levels have
dwlgned a program that contimourlly m i n d s them
p post ere, tlsmugh meetings, through awards
b t they truly a r e hportasst. And this thing sort
~f works f r ~ m
the grassroots on up.
Strangely emaugb it cloe~sn'tindude money.
But m w t of us think of rnaaey :y being the ultimate
reward. TVs more o r less m-ecognition. Is it true
that recognition works better than money in this
partiouleur i w t a m e ?
Mr. Logan:
Well, I muid aay this, r ~ ~ p i t i o n w o rgenerally
ks
a s well a s money. Wow of course we have our
etmdtrrd employee suggestion system, in which any
employee is eligible to make svggestiorrs towards
improvement of the product or reduction of the cost
sf the praduct. Aad we do hand out, regularly,
mWttur51sl m s d morrey m is result of these
suggestions. Hawever, the r d grassroots solution to the psbblem, Ray, in our opinion, is that
9%pement of the people, o r maybe 99.9 percent
of the
w a t to do the right job, as long as
you convince them that top management is truly
q p m i a t i v e of the individual effurts. And the
~ w d ofs varims~kinds,a simpk plaque in some
eases. Remads b e l m intrinsic value, such a s pen
trnd
aetar, cigarette lighters, these kinds of
things, are just a symbol of the appreciation of
mmagemenit. It i~
amaeing haw people react to
them. It is really not the thing that you handout
$thatis valuable. It is the fact that top management
has taken the time to say thanks for a job well done.
(Announcer)
Would you go so far out on the limb to say that this
approach would work in most any industry?
Mr. Lagan:
Oh, I don't doubt it. I think it's inherent in human
w b r e that we all like to be appreciated, and that
we a l l will do a better job if the bose will come
around and pat us on the back once in a while.
( h m cer)
Well, thatvs the magic ingredient, according to
But it takes a lot of effort. The VIP
Jack Log-.
program is everywhwe in evidence at McDomellDouglas plants-goal charts, progrese charts,
awards to the group which won last week, and a
photsgraph of the group with that individual. One
group of VIP winners was flown to Cape Kennedy
to watch the Apollo 11 launch while another group
newt to Houston to help welcome the astronauts
back. The company wants its employees to keep
constantly alert to opportunities to improve efficiency in the product. And the company in turn
keeps constantly alert to ways to reward these
alert employees. The real payoff, of course, is
in more Oovernrnentcontracts, whichmeans more
prof$t for the company, and more work and more
pay for the employees. The Government demanded
quality control on the space program. If the general
public were half a s fussy about the things we buy,
we might be able to encourage the same practice
in other industry.
�Mr. Horton:
What kind of respctnse h v e yau g&m to that.
..
Tremendous. CBf mr#e, I ifid a little PR work in
W
this w w gobg to
letting evePybsdy ~ ~ C Eindisapee?kEy
be on at 7: 30 on s Sunday night, two weske ago. So
I imagiae we had a tsem-s
d i m m , and I bet
Ulrtt P d w t b 8 n ' t go by tias%smx&ody doom't come
by and say, r t M t s a n i e e t l t b . W w i f s d I I i - e d
to it, I f &Lad t
W aork of Urfng. 80 we &re $a&' on with
t h t type d pregnm, espes~idly
the c d t i o n s
of M a y . Nat a b ~ y the
s sme r& &%tion. We have
conttwted a few ethers, and t$ew t:@ows are middle
of thg Poad%lS. %?eiavert af p t the baGiEgmwd Oil
these Mlm%.We can't hawe a lJWt o r a rightist
doing this soTt df IMng. Wetm got to hame a middle
of the road c o r m m m ~ t om~a%b Wng. So it isworking
for us. The ~ e d t a
am fine. En them tims, I think
it is good to get &b Wea ta toe humwife, 4the
general public. I thbk we are.going to accomplish a
hell of a lot here.
attack our probhmbe ia our ownfashion in dediag with
suppliers antP In trying to get
message acrm
to them that we are g f a m with hum;zn lives. You
can't Wtl8 far mything bss thm the very be*. We
have yet ta really twist aii arm. W e h v e always gone
in as the gue& of the supplief, Wme af this sending
a TWX, "I'll Be there an e~ and so, and please try to
heve somany bodies. " And this method of going in as
a guest has worked wonders for us, evea when there
It has enabled us to
are same serious pr&l-s.
es-lish
a rapportwith them. And I think the answer
to dealing with your t4rrpplier is simply what was said
at the very begbning;, tFCommunieatewith them. I f
OW
I go k k to an Letdent that I came acroas right after
I came onWard this program, right #ter the fire. I
went i n t ~a mpp1ierta plant, cmd I came amass a
gwdnaotherly type on the assembly line making little
boggons, smarts, an4 gizmos. When 1 came around
and looked over her shaulder , she s d d , I f You know,
Ifvs hen working an this program for 5 years, and
this ia the first time anyane has bothered to tell me
whare #is thing is going." I have never forgotten
that. And I #ink that has sort of shaped all of our
efforts. The people wwho w e working on the sub~omponents that go into the b k k boxes that we take and
put in our segment of fie Saturn-that the rest of you
assemble into the various other stages-have a right
Mr. Horton:
to lanow what the heck is going an. So we have geared
our program to bringing them up-aX,-date information,
Before we WEBcpie~ttolafl$zm the audience, I would
a s accurate as possible, as soon as pos~ible. In fact,
like to swing the dUcus&oa, just for r moment, to
I put together what Mitch Sharp has come to call a
subcontractor awl v d r r q p l i e r relations. I think
Dog and Pony Show. We have been back and forth
this is a fairly reprasmEltave group of some of our
acrosr thecountry, ishundred$ ~fpresentations at dl
major mntractare. Btu W s a , in ~p~alki32$
to us
of our major suppliers. And it has paid off for us. It
yestemby, poMed 94t W it ibl ~ g r y
e@syfor Borneis w r y difficult to measure. But thefeedback we get
one who ie, w&ae; en a he& shielA, a d boltbg it
from the mppliers management indicates that the mesinto plaae, tQ W ~
t
~ Butait ia ~another
, kind d
sageis getting across. I had a very interesting bit
problem whm yoar have a man w b i s makingtrfovntain
of feedback the other day. I wars talking to one of the
pen for which he c%m~t see the @pw
application,
sxeeutives of one of our supplier8 b d he said, You
particularly if it it4 an off the ahelf itam. I would
know you r e d l y scored with us. He wid, "It got so
like to direet this questim to you, John, and also to
bad, that we had to stop the non-Saturn people from
Tony. 'What do you think carn be done to improve
coming to your sessions. If He said, IWe build things
the mitxtione, th8t.t yau b e in your plants with your
to NASA speeiffeations a d we build things to other
subccrntractors andvendors, to t e e them more swam
of the efforts and the objsctivcs of the l h m e d Flight
W C . The people working on Ure nQn-NBSA hardware would come tnto one of our sessions andgo back
Awarsnase Propara ?If f thiak in am#we~iaQ;
tUs, you
to the floor and raise dl manner of hell with the manmight describe &I us ecmsd the c ~ m u n t c s t i o n l ~ ~
agement. How came we are not building it this way?
o r techniques thak a r e employed in your campay a t
How come we are doing it this lousy way?" That is
this time.
the first real concrete evidence that we had down
on the floor, that themeasage was getting across in a
lasting manner. Now, we like to gage the effectiveMr. Willmott:
ness of our supplier visitrs on what we hear from the
floor, not what management tells you. Because manWe have for tt#,laat several ysars a t ElM b m engaged
agement is dl too pae-particularly if they have a
in s very mtive 1upp1iw 8~8r-s
effort. AS one
contract wtth you-to pat you on the back. "Great
time we called them vewb~ai,and wmewhere along
job. Come back any time you want to." But it is the
the b e it bqgm k?s W in my omw. B e c a u a when
I think of @fa word vendor, I ti&& of eornepne ~)8~3afng little comments you get from the people on the floor
that make the difference.
dong with a push cart of W-doffss or mmetbing of this
sort. We ditwtded efiat we would dignify it somewhat
and call thm suppliers, So gap, dl our ruppliers
Now, we have a program of visiting all of our critiseem to **fa@
this.
cality 1suppliers every 6 months, and our criticality 2
suppliers and selectad criticality 3 mppliers once a
year. And we hkve managed to adhere to this rather
The IBM Corp9mtL~nwo&r ia a ntrmber of different
rigorous schedule, and there's only one person in the
ways, and because we do wcwk in different ways, and
program. And this has worked very very well. But
a r e subject to some dmerent restFtctions , we kave to
.
�facing tBe inbvitabh ~Utb%etOkbth$t
3 are
now we
ctming, as the remll. of h v h g reached the moon.
Ar@ sa, &my cJ;f our i ~ ~ 1 p ~ 1 iae rms aehuttbg Bow23
their &tarn efforts. A d thb beoomm a @l~zn.
I bye beem to @ever&phase-out banquets, aoma of
those aaarful godbye $ession~1,W pe-qdecmm up
toyou and ss$ you, "Why is it
Thia is a
very tocxgb thing to m e r . You don't wsnt to tdk
a b u t 1%but p u have to, What we a r e p
tu do
is, iii same inBttanoes, go badr to our major suppliers,
the iswppliers that we kmm we will be umhg if followon b h s r ck,a~coma-&o ha& tothem on a reductxl
e&edatle--to kaep thgm tnfomed a# ts what is going
m in the ~
e
p We m~ e tga out
. dprtxnise
them businass, Our procurexmnt p e q l e would olimb
dl over as fur that, But, we can keep upen the lines
of c.ornmwWia. We ase dm plmaiag ta make
a v a i k b l b m i n g ; quatiti- of the aw8tPmess matee r f d dealing wi%hthe follow-on Apdlo snissioas,
amiW1t3 our enytpliers fw distribution i n - h m .
I &ti&
the imprtmt thing that we have f w d at IBM
is &at you caa open up a good chamel of c o m u n i cation with pur aup&ere. Them if you do get a
pmblerm, ytau cm in Wt it in a mature, gentlemanly fashioa wbthwt beating each other m r the
b e d . 'We want to keep t h s s channels of commuaica-eimrs Bpen.
t a t . I have the Ieermg that Dr. Hughes said it dl.
There were w many things that I had in my mind, I
said, llThat is what I would like to gay. " And he said
them. But I w d d like to h e one other point, and
tha0 i s , "It is important to tell the man he has a job
with god@ Thdtt today, here and now, there is a
more important concern and that is about having a job
with gods.
."
I think we are living in somewhat a state of euphoria
alter the ecuemes d Apollo 11. And I also think that
maybe we a r e whistlhg in the dark about how things
are and bow we can w i l y make this transition from
Apollo 11 to A p l b 13, and beyond. I think that it is
human to put .vested personel interest, the basic
emotions, the basic drives before national interest.
And, I think this a fact of life. This is something we
are going to have to face. Now, I would agree that
this has been very enlightening for us. Certainly, it
has be0n enlightening for me to hear s m e of the things
that have been reported here today, and yesterday,
about hon-goiag program plms. But, I think we
have to ask o w e l v ~the
s same question that the drunk
would a& lean* up against the lamp post, "Are we
here for enlightenment or support ?"
Mr. Durfee:
Mr. Hartan:
Tony, would you like to comment on this, o r speak
to a a o t b r poht
.
Mr. Tocco:
Well, let me comment on this one first. We have
had limited experience with the program as itaEfects
our suppliers. Rowever, this experience has included
factoring in our quality data system into the overall
supplier p r o g r m f o r zero defects and Manned Flight
Awareness. I think that the point to be made here is
that we have to look at all of these things that we do,
in the way of motivation, quality, and reliability, as
interdependent activities, rather than monolithic
efforts in our company. Because, if they work together a s a kind of research network, the results
seem to have a much larger payoff.
NOW,mother thing we have been doing for some time
is develop a Vendor Rating System. Based on this
Vendor Rating System we will shortly have recognition
d certain selected suppliers. We went through the
gambit of calling them vendors, and then suppliers.
And thatworked so well that we now call them speciality
suppliers. That works even better. But, we do have
a kind of network of things that we do that a r e aimed
at our subcontraotors to intensify their awareness of
their role in helping us produce a quality product, but
not only a quality product, but a product on scheduLe,
and a t the lowest overall cost. And again, this means
it has to be sort of a consortium of activities. Because
you can't gat at this total goal without doing other
things besides motivating by posters, o r by occasional
visits. The element of communication is very impor-
I certainly can't add much if anything to all the preceding comments this morning. I think that the profundity that might tie afew things together is a thought
of mine-when you have a dozen people, you have a
dozen different personal reactions to adiff erent situation. I think that one of the main things to keep in mind
in motivating our people is the fact that Joe likes his
silver Snoopy. He is extremely proud of it. All of the
people are. Joe may be a little more proud of it.
Maybe express a little more personel appreciation
than the next guy.
We, in Grumman, t r y to diversify the motivation of
our people. We do try to assist our management in
carrying out the precepts that Dr. Hughes mentioned
this morning, and the other speakers talked about
earlier. At the same time, our contract with the
members of the NASA team, that deal in motivation
provides us with a gimmickery the importance of
which mustnot be minimized. But, at the same time,
we must be careful that we don't concentrate on it to
the exclusion of recognizing what lies in the motivation
coming from adult, mature, intelligent treatment by
our management. We hold our Snoopy presentations
regularly. Our management gets on the floor regularly. Our management pats the men on the back
regularly. We think that ours is abalancedprogram.
It does incorporate, to a reasonable degree, all of the
elements that have been discussed here. I'm proud
of this. We think that in this way, our people who
appreciate the gimmickery, feel that they are recognized. I feel that, with the other approaches, the
serious engineer feels that his work is recognized,
because his boss and the bosses over him express
this recognition.
�Mr. Gray:
I would liketo elahorate ozr cmepoWthat Tonybrougbt
up. I think W s is a g d time1 a d a goad envirmment for us dl to kind ~f sbphwk zLnd We a look at
whatwe aredotrig in: our moti~o%tm
program. Z Wak
for the pa& few p r m WB hoe dl been more o r
less driving forwakdgretty forcefully and awfully hard
with a lot of new idsnew cancepts and new etppreaches. And, I thirnlc fiat wmetimers if we lsok
deep enough, we will find certain Uliags that caa
be just a s demotivatdng tct our p e q l e , as they a m
motivating. I think t h i ~
b a gsod time to ~eev-aliltate
what wefre doisg in th%@
field, b d e m r e that We
weed these things oat a d keep it on the posiMve side.
Mr. Horton:
Before we go into quwth>ns f m m the audience, I
would like to see a shm bf WPPB f tho%eof ysu who
represent organizations that, at %birr time, have something o r someone that you could identify a s the Mgnned
Flight Awareness element within yous organization.
That is rather impressive to me. I don't know how
many of you a r e representing the Ekpartglmt of Defense, industrg or otber centers, but if we candouble
this number by the wlrt mesting of this sort, I think
we should have a very meirningfuf awareaess effort.
Well, a t this time, I m l d like to have the mikes move
to those who have questions.
I would like to ask a weetkon. With respect to this
meeting again, I think that a meeting b to have a
product to be successful. I would like to rase a
question, 'What is th% p d u a t of this meeting?" Is
it a one-event kind of thinp; where we have met, we
havediscussed, a d we will go away, md take n o w
except some information with us, that may o r may
not be worthwhile in an implementing standpoint?
Or, can we go away from this me&% with an action
planned? Something that we can work on, so that
this will be the first st= uf a continuing proceas to
make the iVbmwd FlQht Awareness Prugmn a living
program in all c
d our orgmizatiom. And if we can
agree an the latter being the h t k r approach, then
how do we do about doing that? This has been my first
opportunity to interfwe with my counterparts. And
t b t is re-grdWle, beetruse in this kind of situation,
I h v e not been able to talc43 advantage of the lessons
l e a n 4 in other amas, and eome sf the innovations
that have come about in other companies and other
~gaakak.ions.So we need totalk to each other more.
Wtt, there has to be a mechanism that provides the
opportunity to do this. It can't be a random thbg.
Maybe we need to set ~p some task forces o r some
study g r o u p , but a t least some planned approach to
make this firart step meaningful in improving the overall performanos on Manned Flight Awarenerss, so that
the end objectives of the customer and ourselves can
be met, and, a s I say, in a verydiffioultenvironment,
One of the cqtains of indrrstry who spoke yesterday,
is laying offpeople at the rate of about 1000 a month.
In this enviranment, it is difficult to c0nvinc.e the
employees of the objective of Zero Defects or Manned
F l i a t Awareness. The individual is not a s much
concerned, if you will, with Apollo 12 as he is with
October 12. Will he have a job on that day, when
Re M a the etrearn that is going out the gate and
handing in their badges every day? Mow, this is a
nervous environment we are in. And I think it is a
shame to gloss over the realities of it. I don't think
that we can appeal to the American worker by saying,
'Well, the American worker is dedicated to craftsrnen~hip.~'This is not true inmany, many instances.
Our consumer products I think abundwtly attestto the
fact that pride in workmenship has in many areas
disappeared.
So perhaps I am asking a psychotic question here.
Where do we go from here in a very difficult enviro m e n t where funding has been cut. In the letter of
imitation I received from Dr. Gilruth, it was stated
that there is concern about a degradation of quality,
and the personal eeal to excel in this program on
irrdiviciual jobs. It is not going to be easy to get that
answer. But I think we have to design a blueprint
for some action, other than just a discourse of the
problem and an illumination of the future plan of
NASA. What I
asking for here is some effort
toward that objective of admitting a team that will
make this a going program in the months and years
ahead-recognizing the tremendous problems that
we face.
�MANNED FLIGHT AWARENESS
THEMES
AND
PROGRAM CONTINUITY
�CENTRAL THEMES
AND
AWARDS
A 1 CHOP
Headquarters West Coast Representative
Manned Flight Awareness Office
You know, I've b n sitting herelistening to tap manqx%bentrqrmsentatives, snd the more successful
m t i w t i o n directors, and the m e thfag that strikes
n
ei ad ~ D wS a t h a d dl the way through this area
ob mrA'f9d M L v i & ~i ~
the,£act W w e need to
mmnmicata. That is not a new problem. Go back
@xmt Ijat.Wv pare, when man flrst crrtwfjed out upon
to t& to his feilow man. But he
f&e had;- slnd
M
wrttttsn lan@@ge, He could not put down a
l;a~wg,~%atsgbt.Plratead Qf We shflity to write,he did
earn@ up wi& tha ability to draw, And even today oar
~ ~ e o l ~exploring;
~ r f scave%will find drawings on
the cavern waUa-man desperately atbmpting to put
d h something that will last, and give the benefit
of his thoughts.
Now today we have a written ltuiguage, a d through
f3m @ace pmgxpm we have oommunications that a r e
werldwidh. You would thhk we wouldn't have any
problem t@bg ta e&ah dher But obviously we. do.
I t$i&. st 1$8t14t &ma of our top maaagement people
w l h w&A&y mM, '%&we neeti to d~is comnunieate
s lit& btt be&fmwith
worker. They recognize
a e p m m s , Ws too in NASA have a problem of corn., We b v e to oorammbcltewith i m y thQY8
;
Wd m1tW&6&0fr8. We have to try to get our mes-
.
B
-
hi@&&
-t@amto your w o r k e r s - d
thous;pgPZ ef
there a r e several
them. And when the M
d
P$t@ Awaremera p r o w tried to build a little fire
~&Ier mr efforts in #is area, &out two and a half
years sga, one of the things we r@csgniaad?slacking
was a .central theme. We knew that everybody had
m~tfvationalprog;l.nuns in the field. But they
w&re~'t
k 9 I l ytaking NASAfsr massage. They weren't
tarlk%qgt b g t our astronauts*and our mission a d s .
$0 we bAed-to put to$e&br alittle_c8ntrJ theme, and
Z ,ams w e you a r e all fmDierr with our f f o o p y the
Aatxs~wiuV~
program. f d a f t want30 go into it..too
because we don't have much W e . But there
a r e a few little thing@ I would like to mention about
S n q y the Astronaut. Snoopy is not a motivation
grolpsun, and there ham b e several remarks in
that dirwtion today. I h o p no one lock? upon Snoopy
the Astronaut, a s a motivation program. Snoopy
sems two purporserr He is a visual symbol of commanication, and he serves a s an award, or recognition
program, for use of the astronauts themselves. Those
are his only two r o h s . Hehas abeblukly nothing to do
with your motivation program. A good motivation
program has been spelled out here pretty distinctly
today. But, Snoopy is an aestst. He is at001 for you,
if you care to use him. A good motivation tool. He
has bees extremely effective. I think most everyone
relates to Snoopy, in one way o r another. But people
do relate to cartoon@, ever since that dim day in the
geological past. People do fYmn-onlT to a good
cartoon. We have been caxrying Snoopy a s a communicatiom symbol for approximately two years now.
When we firat made our contact with United Features,
which owns this copyright, and with Mr. Charles
Schulz ,we made some agreements with them. I would
like to q e l l these out go that if yo^ have any doubt in
your m h d you know exactly what you can, and what
you csnnot do, with this symbol.
.
Number o w : M r . Schuk and United Features both
agreed &at they do not want company personnel artists
i n the art department drawing Snoogy, a d using that
image tB& they draw on posters, decals, cards or
angrthing else. The reason for this, no two artists
wilI &raw hinoopy exactly alike. Pretty soon, when
a million different Snoogys appear, he looses his
identity. If you want to use Snoopy in a particular
way, or if you need a particulardrawing, all you have
to do Ihl ask fox it, And I'll tell you how to do that.
~
d
if we a
use Snoopy in any form on posters,
cards, eta., we will carry the United Features copyright. Just a small Ifcffin a circle followed by United
�Features Syadicde, lW9 (smd that w i l l &mge to 1970).
The reason f o r a a t is a v e q gmd w. If a p r c d u ~ e r
of materids that a r e sold *Q tb public ean prove ip
oourt that tl &tlsaeter lib;
qppxd%housands bf times witbout. a
,then3t bbecmm
public property. This fs P wry d&1e piece of
prcqerty we me &Uowd .t@ we a;t no wst to o.i
think the Zesrst we ctwr do i s be d~olubalywsre taat
when we use it id sur eaiqgqy pspers
there is o
c ~ y l " i g h t u w b m e athe&ctary.
~
Bw%f&st,we a h o a
assllz"e that @ pfckrre i&E bwbemfurniled to us
by Mr. &hul&,
at.covers postere, deode, and silver
pin has a copp5gM m &e hwk, B we h v e Ederz~in
which we wish to w e m g . o a other items, we m e t ,
under mr ag~reasext, -it
tbe~e-to Mr. James
Aememey at
B~&m=es. My expertenca with
him hirs~tbsrd~h.asapp~a.lped
100p%rcenEdeve@W i we hawe asked h3m far. & Xhis i8 M) pmbbm
either. I% does want t~ hfmwhat we me doing wit31
his prapmty.
a m tha basic @ourid W for
using Ehmpy-. z@ a a e oa @waeWeyrrtC w t is ovaiiable to you. All T Q P .tso~do~b ,tlWmit your idea
as to h0r\kr
wtsh ko w e thiW Iff& chmwter, give
me a rcmgh &W, am3 I w i l l have Mr. Schulz draw
it for you. afe dm do u%etemqthiag be has d r a m
before. For &-I@,
tbe oaI*toms that @pparedisn
fakp them tla& hse theao,
,w*wsl'fe &-tic
pr-d
af muram th& we
use the ewp&.
Bo tlutt&ollld be n,problam. We
have
dlQIi‘q$ many ~
~ Chr8 ~
,
~
again, d y cm@k@a h m p y aa an astmwut. That's
iqwtm&.
&a w e of c-ne
1s very eBecWe have found
t2ve. I think a kt af gm do like &e ;SMopy cartoms
apd da umfe the?. E&mevw, & m e QT the mmqmnfear
do n ~mum
t t~ be
w%&Sm~py.C & w I b w
of, bwww Eboog,~WM wed in a car & @ p t l w
on tdeW&a. 1 f&& it ww, ad Ford Cbg2.W~that
ulaedt.8e &@e pm.w%y
4$mg. TBis paI.tEcaIar Supplier
mtakss mwtber b m Bf car, @awe him, %ha&gwdness, $Wrwc)gn* k.BBs2 &@repa 80ma @dwwl
help
in ttre cwt.oo~merm. I would
to s_Bm.you aezwlmn
h t h f b~ m~ drm by ~ L woria
S
famous ct~&anist,
at3&htdZWQt&%b~mBIhb (!Ygure 1).
Ithinltyoudll9fl~
.
the Am&c;m p p l e Tkey have all g ~ at real good
sense of humor, and they get the message real fast.
Cartooning a s a basic form of communication is extremely effective. This is all we're trying to do with
these characters, turd we don't use them loopercent.
A%you all know, we put out a great many posters.
They are not all cartoons. We use our astronaut
pictures.
We use
that have no trace of
~
t marry things
,
humor in them. But we liketo intersperse alittle bit
of humor, because we think it gets a hold on people.
We get our message across just a little bit better. I
believe we have Mr. Hrt in the audience with us, and
I would like to introduce Johnny. I wish you would
come up and say hello, Johnny. I'd like to have you
all meet him, and then we will go over the ground
rules of Qur agreement with Johnny.
af %a little eluarr-
'W, '+
d3mwa by
Jaha$ m. f gatfss ae
a to
jwlnars i s
toThar whar9de~thwbel. I am v w htri@d*@
Johnnyt@8pad pad=.
$&m%yhas LBm& to 13
us uae his
f E % 1 c$maw
fez xis. We
OB -d&~,
or in rn dber
can m e P
watfr .la which he d eppmva. We &.laa@a~have
*
faf
-6
8%-t
~~~
&ar &@
~ O S ~ S .
Mr. Stmt.\cvozadlike3W
%oamw i%eOWa ~ t & t T Sd~t?,
% &@& SO& b ~ &' @& MkEXpWy
doing &i4. &a@%&* wUl I~aee-th%ir
mt&nf&y. tand
their d : W e @!'~WQ %I,
FIGURE 2
�of you will come up with some good ideas for cost
reduction, using Johnny's characters. You can also
look at new technology, or dress up otherwise very
dull engineering standards reports. Johnny's working
on a bunch of them for us now. He will work in any
area that is approved by NASA. So we hope to put
Mr. Hart:
1'11 be verybrief. When youareas short a s 1 sun, you
a r e pretty h r i d in the first place. But I am just proud
and happy to be given the opportmity to work on this
very noble program. Thank you very much.
Mr. Chop:
Let me tell you a little more about this guy. So you
will know the type of guy you a r e working with. When
I talked to him about coming down here to virit with
you all, 1 offered to attempt to get invitational travel
orders so that NASA would pick up his travel cost.
He said, "No, that is too much trouble, I will just
pay my own way. " And he did, a l l the way from
Eadicatt, New York, and back. That will give you an
idea of the sinoerity that he brings to this program.
The g r m d ruler again, I q l a i n e d to Johnny how we
operate with the United Features and with Mr. Sohulz,
Mr. I-&
has Preatiss Hall. Is that right, Johnny?
He like8 our existing arrangement. A single source
of cow&&, whioh will be my office. Otherwise he
would get afload of letters and he would have to pick
and choose himself to decide which are most import m t and that would take up all his time. One of the
things bis -nay
fs insisting on, is that we do not
He has a job to do. He makes his
o v e ~ ~ o him.
rk
money cartooningfor the Syndicate. You make nothing
cartooning f a r NASA. The groundrulethen is usethe
single point of contact for your request, and that will
be my d i c e . The mcond is that the company artists
will nat dram $he liMe characters. Johnny will do
that for us. And third, if we have anything outside
of pWteTs and decals we want to produce, we will
have to ieubmit it for approval.
I want to digress just a minute. With Mr. Bolger in
Tom Stafford's office the other day we had a little
discussion about astronaut plant visits. As you may
know,' Tom has just been assigned to the job of Chief
Astronaut. That was previously held by Alan Shepard.
Tom kind of threw up his hands while we sat there
and said, "You know, I get letters from everybody
asking for an astronaut to visit a plant. I get phone
calls, notes that a r e scribbled, messages from the
chief's secretaries. " He said, llYouknow, we've got
to put this thing on the right road. " He said, "I want
everything in writing, and I want it from one single
source." And, he said, "1 want a 30-day lead time,
minimum. And Iwant an alternatedate. 'I Mr. Bolger
thought that was reasonable. He turned to me and
said, "Alright, you do that." And, so, I have that
one teo. If you want an astronaut to visit your plant,
drop your NASA MFA guy a letter. He will acknowledge and forward the letter to me atNorthAmericanRmlrwell Spaee Division, Downey, California. My
address is 12214 Lakewood Fbulevard. Attention:
A1 Chop/RESPO Qffice. We must have about a 30day lead time, and an alternate date, Tom said he
would honor everything he can. You must keep in
mind the words that Stu Roosa had for us yesterday.
71
�MANNED
FLIGHT
AWARENESS
WORKING TOOLS
EUGENE E.
HORTON
Chief, Manned Flight Awareness Office
Manned Spacecraft Center
In the hierarchy oS hounds, there is one who stands
scarf and g w l e s above the rest (Figure 1).
He is the only beagle to reach the moon, and he even
got k r e W o r e that sttpid cat next door. He isa p l l ~ t ,
p h i l q h r , moflteur, the quintessence of quixotic
q a d q e d s . He is the master stroke of c h m n i r t
Charkes '"SpaFYEjrWSchulz. His name, of couroe, is
Szmapy. Thew is _amagic about this mutt that has
e n d e a r 4 him to mmi9220ns. Snoopy appears in newspapers z@&mdthe globe, in dozens d languages. He
grin8 a t us from sweatshirts, flight bags, pennants,
s u e d toys, decals, coloring books. And even,
thaaks t~ Colonel Ton Stafford, from space. Hz is
a household word. Perhaps we love him because we
relate to him.. We a l l lead a dog's life. Whatever
his magic, he i e one of the most powerful communie&tors of aur a p . TMs is why he katc beonmr: apart
of our Mam& Plight Awareness PPogrm. Bnd, like
Smoky the Bear, who served to p r ~ t e c tour forests
for some 28y@us,he is an important symbol. Snoopy,
in his astrcmmt's garb, i s the astronautsrmatscot. He
has h o r n ttr.8 accepted symbol of quality and of
erncellence d worth and craftsmttnship in everything
associ~tedw
i
a the Manned Spaceflight program.
we attach a lot of importance to Snoopy. He is our
standardbearer for quality and for professionalism.
His work is impo-t.
His job is really our job, to
held the team together. And one way bo hold the team
together is to create meaningful work. This is the
job for management. But it takes more than this. It
also takes close cmmunication, up and down and
acrross the organization. And it has to take many
forms, because people a r e different and are motirated in different ways. One motivator that has universal appeal (and we have discussed this these two
days) is dissemination of understandable information,
from the top-straight talk. Evidence from the boss
that the workwedo each day is important; that someone cares that the job is done right, and done right
the first time! (Figure 2.)
Now, the value of ~ymbolsshould nst be mhimized.
In Suly, there was a flag placed td the surface of the
moon. Lt: w m not just a flag, W m r , it was an
American sag! It symbolized. It was the standard
of a free p@@s. It was Mt .anth& nakd, far-away
rock to say m-.
It has a message &?out imwination, courage, a d %ete@hnolagic.al
prowess. And,
as our Prestdent soon P o d , this measage had been
heard in evgry laad he visited. The flight s f Apollo 11
is etched farever in hie-.
Yet, the m e event that
will burn most vividly in the minds of men, i s the
raising of Old Glory on the lunar surface. A symbol.
A lot of people attach importance to symbols. And
FIGURE 1
�FIGURE 3
FIGURE 2
There are many ways to communicate. When Snoopy
joined our program, we introduced him to a few Did
you know that Snoopy, assisting our Manned Flight
Awareness Pragrafn, rwohee the Department of
Defense, the airlines that carry our carrgo, and some
200 contra~tors? Did you h o w that in three years
MFA has distributed 90, a00 posters, a quarter of
a million photographs, 900 individEEEal awards, 40,000
safety deods 3 Also, produced a monthly newsletter
to all contmc-tors, WAS and MU oenter8, and seven
films on M@
Flight Awareness wxi quality; &own
exhibits to 155,000 ;films to 100,000 ; sent astronauts
to 53 plants; hosted some 600 honorees at Cape
Kennedy? I &ink it a p p ~ o p r i dour Snoopy's reply,
"Good grid l (Figure 3. )
.
This is a plcCm typifying wtivitles of theastronauts
in support of the Manned Flight Awareness Program.
Figure 4 shows aertronaut I h 8 W tyhweikart at Grumman, Bethpage appearingbefom the workers who assembled the hardware for his flight. And, we a r e
hoping that dw* the months ahead, these visits will
continue and will be conducted on a eelectivebasis in
order to equitably serve the interests of dl contractors, with the astronauts appearing in plants throughout the nation where critical hardware is produced.
As mentioned a moment ago, we have a poster program. It is unique perhaps in the sense that only
through NASA, it is possible to obtain the Snoopy
DO IT RIGHT.
GUARANTEE A
SUCCESSFUL
'1- w m u ' P
FIGURE 4
FIGURE 5
��So, a findpointmade yesterday. This ie not the end,
it's the begimiag. There L sm orderly, balanced
program ahead of us, with work thatwill carry usfer
generations tocome. Thebenefits are just emerging.
New technology will be a m a W , and new jobs. With
the space station, and shuttle, and mission^ to Mars,
the challenge to the creative individual i s just now
opening up. Bappfness is lentwing them is a future.
This is fundamental to aur motivational effort. We
know mut3h better aa a r e d t of this oonference, and
the programs t a t we have seen over the p ~ s ttwo
days, what the challenge is. Now, let us go home
and spread a little happiness.
FIGURE 8
.
-
.
.
-
oF
THE BEG\UN\NG!
BUT TNE END
.
:<*,.
FIGURE 11
-
-. .
"
--
..
i S
&L.
�C L O S I N G R E M A R K S
I wfll just take a minu&?of your time i$ closing before
co~lef.udingour meetJng. We have been an the phone
here f s r semral bars trytag to rw&Frmk Bomm
in Mew Ya*. We was schedded k3 b with us, and
wantad to be here, but unfortunately becaws of some
gmbIerns inNew York he is behind schedule, and won't
be uriM us. We will miss the oppostaznityto hear from
him. Tkio L unfortunate s i w e he is a s vitally interest& iatMs wsrk as we are and one af o w strongest
stlpywJ*o
and Avoea&s.
I @@t
wmW to say a fm words about the purpose of
M was to bring you here, introduce you
to ma'RABA@ms for the Euhre, and to reemphasize
the c a a e p t of a team Mort we have htd from the beghming of the apaee program. Every man in the
aerospace f a r m that works on these space pprofpims
is a member ~f that team. That of courae is what we
have beean & y i i to emphasize with our Manned Plight
Awareness Program all along. And finally, we wanted
to reiterate the requirement for quality workmanship.
We ham dme this bwause we are qarleaeing?; an
ira%vit&1%slump, o r leaown, after the major effort
to get C the mom with -10
11. And it concerns
us all, You h v e haard of tb ooncern d NASA and
contract and mzxnwsmnt ye@terday. We want to
combat this letdam amd the ioxwred morale that we
sae in a l ~ tcrf csur p l a t @ ,beau- of the cutbacks,
by a m r i n g that the people who are motivating and
talking to the workers intheir plants understand what
our plsannw i~ and k m that we are going ahead with
a p m g r m for &e Atbre. To do Sis we have brought
to you whatwe & h k i@afaisly goodcast sfchaweters
to sped--top N W and iadustry m$Lnagement. And
thme people bfe come because they are concerned.
They we qxken of their concern h t this letdown
ad
f w t Wt this b r e d s burnan error and indiffezem to d d i l , An4 Of course with that we a r e
d@d of ageriaicing g fdlure of some kind which
could kiU some ef our programs.
I fu5twa.at f~ W e one momsat to r e d a statement
by krzy M e r e r ,whom most of you know. He spent
35 or 440 years a8 Mr. Flight Safety f o r the United
Itia$eta, a d he i s k n m around the world. He unfortuatsly had an operation rmently and then a minor
h& atfa&, so he cddntn't wma doma here. Luckily
he isba& on hisfeet a d wellen his way to recovery.
S t Jerry says, in a short statement,
Dr. Wfge Mueller , in a cIwsic statement
a tbe ra~wes&d splashdown on Apollo 11
sdd, 'In this moment of man's greatest
achievement, it is timely for us to dedicate
ourmlvee to the unfinished work so nobly
b e g o m by three of us, to rewlve that this
nation, under Gad, will join with all men in
the pursuit .of the destiny of mankind that will
lead the way to the planets.' These words
propose a powerful bacon to guide the future
of mamed space flight. But to reach this
god, a vast sucaession of intermediate problems must be solved. Not the least of these
is the motivation of craftsmen toward perfection. The Achilles heel of spacecraft can
be the man a t the bench. Success thus far
is attributed to human integrity, the basis
of product integrity. The natural inclination
of most mm to conduct themselves with
integrity has been superbly supported by the
MFA progrrams which you individually, and
collectively, have conceived and implemented. However, the psychological environment has ahangal. Apollo 11 was a tremendous suwesi. Complacency feeds on
sumess. Thousands of craftsmen are being
laid off-creating a problem of morale. The
future is uncertain-creating-a problem of
discipline, Dr. von Braun addressed himself to thase problems at the Honorees Reception on the eveningof July 15. He affirmed
his confidence in the success of Apollo 11.
Whatworried him, he said, was not Apollo 11,
but Apollo 12, 15, 16, a d on down the line.
It is for this readson you have gathered here.
The exceptional originality of your previous
programs may need additional creativity to
maintain the momentum of the past. I am
confident that this will happen. Iregret that
I runnot present to hear the liveIy discussions
and unique ideas that will be presented.
Jerry Lederer
.
I want to thank you dl for coming, for giving us your
time, and for participating. I know it is a sacrifice
to you comingfrom your work. We felt that the fairly
overwhelming agreement in the need for this reunion
and participation was very gratifying. We have over
400 people that participated. And finally we want to
thank the MSC, Dr. Gilruth, and the rest of his staff
for being hosts to us here today. That's it, gentlemen,
t+t concludes the meeting and thank you very much
for coming.
PHILIP H, BOLGER
�
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Saturn V Collection
Relation
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<a href="http://libarchstor.uah.edu:8081/repositories/2/resources/60" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">View the Saturn V Collection finding aid in ArchivesSpace</a>
Identifier
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Saturn V Collection
Description
An account of the resource
<p>The Saturn V was a three-stage launch vehicle and the rocket that put man on the moon. (Detailed information about the Saturn V's three stages may be found<span> </span><a href="https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/rocketpark/saturn_v_first_stage.html">here,<span> </span></a><a href="https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/rocketpark/saturn_v_second_stage.html">here,<span> </span></a>and<span> </span><a href="https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/rocketpark/saturn_v_third_stage.html">here.</a>) Wernher von Braun led the Saturn V team, serving as chief architect for the rocket.</p>
<p>Perhaps the Saturn V’s greatest claim to fame is the Apollo Program, specifically Apollo 11. Several manned and unmanned missions that tested the rocket preceded the Apollo 11 launch. Apollo 11 was the United States’ ultimate victory in the space race with the Soviet Union; the spacecraft successfully landed on the moon, and its crew members were the first men in history to set foot on Earth’s rocky satellite.</p>
<p>A Saturn V rocket also put Skylab into orbit in 1973. A total of 15 Saturn Vs were built, but only 13 of those were used.</p>
Dublin Core
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spc_stnv_000053
Title
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"After the Moon - What? Minutes of the Manned Flight Awareness Seminar."
Description
An account of the resource
The seminar was held at the Manned Spacecraft Center, September 25-26, 1969.
Creator
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United States. National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Date
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1969-09-26
Temporal Coverage
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1960-1969
Subject
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Manned space flight
Project Apollo (U.S.)
Saturn Project (U.S.)
Space flight to the moon
Space vehicles
Type
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Minutes (administrative records)
Text
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Saturn V Collection
Box 33, Folder 14
University of Alabama in Huntsville Archives, Special Collections, and Digital Initiatives, Huntsville, Alabama
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en
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This material may be protected under U. S. Copyright Law (Title 17, U.S. Code) which governs the making of photocopies or reproductions of copyrighted materials. You may use the digitized material for private study, scholarship, or research. Though the University of Alabama in Huntsville Archives and Special Collections has physical ownership of the material in its collections, in some cases we may not own the copyright to the material. It is the patron's obligation to determine and satisfy copyright restrictions when publishing or otherwise distributing materials found in our collections.
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spc_stnv_000051_000074